Langdons 32/32 leaking float valve.

Classic Goldwings

Help Support Classic Goldwings:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Sounds pretty close. I'll bet you can get that secondary jetted so it will work. A gas analyzer would be helpful. Too bad they still command a good price. What inside diameter are the narrow parts of your runners? They look like exhaust tubing. Nice work.
 
I will try to use the carter/Weber 32/32 instead.

I have some experience with the 32/36 in cars, and I don't like the way the 32/36 kicks in the second barrel. It demands a rpm over 3000-3500, to kick in good. And me being an inexperienced rider, I want a smoth kick in of the second barrel. Not the kinda of brutal jump in power the 32/36 can give.
An experienced driver might like it. And this is only my experience from 2 weber conversion's in cars, I might be completely wrong.

But I am pretty sure that 32/32, with an second idle circuit kicks in the second barrel in a nicer/smother way.

The runners come from the $269 EMPI/Weber kit to a Volkswagen pancake wagon engine I bought. I cut them, and used the rubber boats from that kit also. I want to buy 4 more rubber boats to the other end of the runners instead of silicon. The PVC pieces/tubes/connectors comes from Home Depot, they fit perfectly in the OEM Honda intakes, and the EMPI runners fits pretty well in the PVC tubes. I cut them in half, so I got 4 pieces out of 2 tubes. The runners are 29 mm inside.

Just did some reading about the 32/36, and it looks like they have a second idle circuit also for the second barrel. Oh, well, I was wrong again.
 
on the video ..when you cleared it out by going into secondary ...it got rid of the access gas in the to rich conditions at idle ...this is what causes the rpm increase ... as the charge slowly but surely gets richer the rpm slows down as it is getting drowned out ..if off enough it will die ...this is also some of the reason the secondary bumps hard ....in my experience ive seen this problem from all angles ... getting the primary right is the first step to dialing in the secondary ..... vid is great thanks :BigGrin:
 
[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=139954#p139954:4g0qehtz said:
joedrum » 56 minutes ago[/url]":4g0qehtz]
on the video ..when you cleared it out by going into secondary ...it got rid of the access gas in the to rich conditions at idle ...this is what causes the rpm increase ... as the charge slowly but surely gets richer the rpm slows down as it is getting drowned out ..if off enough it will die ...this is also some of the reason the secondary bumps hard ....in my experience ive seen this problem from all angles ... getting the primary right is the first step to dialing in the secondary ..... vid is great thanks :BigGrin:
That is exactly my experience as well.
I have improved on this by modifying jetting as well as adding an 'air bleed hole' in the throttle plate as has Joe.
Mine is not perfect but getting better which each little modification.
I am not saying this is the best approach to the problem but it has worked well for me.
 
No chance to ride it yet.

I was checking my valve lash since it was so quite, and just as I was expecting it was set to tight. But I broke one of the 4 bolts that holds the left cam cover, because it was over tighten. So now I have to fight with that.

When it comes to the 32-36, you guys experience, and Webers directive, goes hand in hand, that's good. The mix screw is in less then 2 turns, Weber says that is rich, you guys says it is running rich. So there is no doubt about that.

But this is not the carb I'm going to use, I just really quick mounted it on the bike to compare settings on idle between this 32-36, and the carb I am going to use, the 32-32 Langdon carb. That one has a setting of mix 4 turns out, it does not settle on 1500 rpm after a full gas, like the 32-36, it goes straight down to 1100 rpm after a full gas. (see the video before the video of the 32-36.) Weber says that 4 turns is lean, and the idle jet in the 32-36 is 60, and the idle jet in the 32-32 is 50. My idea is to put a 60 idle (just because I have one laying around) jet in the first barrel on the 32-32, and see if it behaves exactly like the 32-36.(rich) If so I buy a 55, and try that. If 50 is lean?

Or is it rich? What is the smallest idle jet Weber has? 40?

I'm rambling on here, hope it makes sense?

Am I thinking right here?

And on top of that there is the float bowl ventilation problem, in the 32-32 Langdon carb. As I see it there is no ventilation what so ever unless I remove the spring and the vent blocking pin. That can't be good, the fuel entering the bowl chamber has to fight against an air bubble to get in there? I'm surprised it worked as good as it was, or maybe the sealing pin is not sealing 100%?

There going to be some fiddling with the 32-32 Langdon carb, in the upcoming weeks. Air bleed hole sounds interesting, how big are these?

Here is the 32-32 Langdon carb, that I am going to use:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5q7zZRK2XY

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5q7zZRK2XY[/video]
 
ok i am impressed with how well you are looking at things ....there is a bowl venting problem ....when use on cars as design with all the excess non function crap on it ...the motor is a low rpm mild menner motor compared to oldwing ..the venting is fine ...but on oldwing and its high rpm and flow demands the venting is just not good enough....part of the problem is actually the gasket ... the venting is in the top and all choked up to go several ways when on car on venting ...and the gasket if cut tight is balow top and really dam near blocks off 1/2 the bowl to vent at a good rate when rpm gets up there ...this along with the choked up venting path ..is for sure a mismatch in the oldwing needs in venting ...ok that said ..if you look at the top on the fuel inlet side ... you will see two plugs right next to the fuel inlet and vent area ...the one plug of the 2 ..the one closest to fuel and venting inlets ...is a channel that opens up into the top above gasket ...it is direct no turns or crazy venting paths ...me i opened this up ... i also made sure the gasket did provide enough open area to vent both side of the bowl ....i had no problems from venting anymore .....

now for idle circuit ... the dft carb has 6 idle circuit feeds ... again this is a car carb ...it was made to match a load of a car ...who knows how many times heavier than a oldwing bike ...on a car with that kind of load it requires a idle circuit that can handle that load ....along with air conditioning and like power steering loads of cars to go along with weight of car over bike .....all what i just said means nothing to a bike ... with a idle circuit this big to handle load for car totally makes it it way to big ..for a smaller displacement bike motor with no idle loads at all ... a huge mismatch in my opinion .....the carb even has a non adjustable power valve that adds even more gas to the deal .... and me anyway i disable this device as the last thing i needed was more gas in low rpm .....

it has been proven to me that to much gas or rich dose not produce rpm ...it stops it from happening ..the more it stops it the more gas get delivered ...and then after things starts going past the idle circuit ...the jetting seems to lean out and motor takes off ...on my bike this didnt last long ..with the system i have and aggressive cam ..the bike went right into leans pops and backfire from not enough gas from a way to rich sooty plugs condition ... must say here my motor brings theses things to the table way quicker than others with stock motors .....

so i know others feel different and have every right to... but to me the 32-32 dft carb or i think any car carb is not good out of the box on a low load bike to me ....its simply design for something else ....

now lets get down to it is this carb close and can it be made to run great .....yes it my opinion this carb by itself modded and set up right ....just tears up the stock set up from honda ...ive been amazed how bad the stock set up is in comparison .....i dont come by this easy i cheerish the thought of a 75 stock carb rack ... had one done up good and it worked what i thought was great on the 1100 mod bike i built ...kind of a proto type of the hooch build 1200 ...well the didnt come close to running the 1200 motor i built ...and ive been working on the dft on the 1200 mod motor for awhile ...as i was blind here ...slowly but surely it has exposed most of the faults of the oldwing bikes are mostly carb related ...ok talk about ranbling ...seems the 40 idle jet is the smallest one you can get ...i use a 45 ...id like to use a 40 ...just havnt yet ...my bike doing rather well.....with yours wanting more idle jet seems to be common on the 32-32 ....i think when you get bowl venting big enough this will change it did for me and im back to the 50 jet on the 32-32 i am working with now on the jyd bike ...and would try a 40 jet if i had one ....like dan said drill throttle plate hole to get air at idle without exposing more gas feed ..as you have by turning idle speed screw to almost buried position exposes all idle circuit feeds to put gas to charge and i am sure this is to much .... with your mix and idle speed adjusted so much makes me think its leaking air in manifold somewhere ...but video dosnt seem to support that ...it sounds pretty good ....but your comment that the stock intake horns were hot ...dose suggest leaking ...you said runner was cool then intake horn hot ...that big change ..and may indicate leaking right there sucking in some warm air and requiring more gas feed to run ....just a thought again the video seems to not make this case as it sounds rather good ...stock intake horn are hard to seal good and hard to stay that way ... a lot of my problems went away when intake horns did too ...as the grab bar system i have now stays good and sealed .....if my runners are cold ...its really a good sign ...if they leak in any way they wont get cold ... during to proccess of doing grab bar mod i learn all this .....

you seemed to be a lot like me ...even though the video sounds good you not happy with it ....well ive ramble enough ...let me assure you ..the dft is a great carb and nothing wrong with it dose it match oldwing perfect no ...in my book not even close... is it like one of the best mods one could do for power and a list of other things possitive for oldwing ...you bet it is ...is it easy no ... is it easy to as good as stock or close for riders who simplicity seems so many are pleased with out of box applications and not much messing with ....

personally im like a dog on a fresh bone ...once i seen the potential of my bike with the dft carb ...before i an done i will have this carb modded the best i can to match the oldwing motor ...where i am now and not totally satisfied is way above stock set up in all ways motor... carbs ..gearing ..so how my work relates to stock setups has to suspect ...cause of the reality the stock carbs wont work on my bike ...but they would on yours ....rambling mess i hope you get something out of it :BigGrin:
 
image.php

this is a pic of the 32-32 top.....on the left is the plugs just right of the fuel feed and above... the closest one to gas feed is a strait shot vent to the bowl area....
image.php

this pic isnt very good ...but dont really need to be ...this shows the idle circuit feeds ...there are 6 total ... one is below throttle plate and is adjusted by the mix screw...the other 5 are inline or above throttle plate when close... when you adjusted so much idle speed screw all these feeds were in play and feeding the idle as the throttle plate was moved .....
image.php

this pic here shows the hole in throttle plate mod that brings air without fuel or at least less..there are three holes in the center above mix screw feed and one either side of that ....on my carb i blocked off the two outside feeds ...by drilling through the bottom to get access to block..you can see the middle access plug to channel inline with the mix screw...the channels either side look white with the plugs that go full length there to block feed ... so now on my carb there are only 4 feeds now and one with the mix screw is adjustable ...not advocating this as my bike is totally different than yours ...hope this helps you some :BigGrin:
 
So here's an update. Just wanted to say to Joe that, I can't compete with you, when it comes go deep into this carb.

Bought a 55 idle to my 32/32, to see what that did. It seems to be ok, not 100% sure. The mix screw is around 2 turns out now instead of 4. That should be better according to Weber.
I also found out that my speed screw problem might not be such a biggie, when I counted the turns, it is only around 2,5 turns in, from when the screw start touching the linkage. It's just that you only have around 5 turns, and then it's bottomed out. Need to do more checking on that.

After I removed the float bowl ventilation pin (see video), it definitely runs leaner, I even have small lean pops around 2500 rpm. Which make sense, this is a carb that was supposed to run a Ford engine very close to 14.7 in air versus gas mix. Why it was running richer with blocked ventilation is a mystery to me. But you never know what is happening inside a carb, when something is not working like it was intended to work.

First I will hook up vacuum advance ignition, and see if the lean pops goes away. Next step is to go up in main jet a little. On the other hand, I'm just guessing. I have a wide band oxygen sensor almost put in a box, it's going to be a movable instrument both for work, and private. When that instrument is finished I can test, and be more sure what the fuel ratio really is.

My throttle hook-up is not what I wanted. I wanted to use both cables, but after fiddling for to many weeks with that, I gave up, and it become a single cable. Maybe something for next winter?

Have to fix my front brakes, before a test run.

Float bowl ventilation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuhctI_-GMc

Cold start after change of idle jet, and fixed float bowl vent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28-4C6Cxifw
 
I haven't experience with these, but am messing with one and reading all I can about them. If you google drilling a hole in throttle plate, you'll find it is quite common. The info I read as far as the dft, dgv carbs is that you don't want to turn the idle screw out more than two turns.mid more than two turns, go down an idle jet size or drill a hole. If you go more than two turns the plate lifts enough to bring in the primary circuit. If you are two turns or less, but still rich, you need it leaned out. This hole will allow a tad more air without activating the primary circuit.

I also found this info dealing with bigger carbs than ours, but the principle is probably the same. This is in regards to the power valve: " If the engine seems to be running rich at idle and the idle mixture screws aren’t clearing it up, there are a couple of things to check. The first is the power or enrichment valve. This valve is a gateway from the fuel bowl into the main circuit. It’s opened when the vacuum drops to the number stamped on the valve under acceleration. However, if vacuum at idle is lower than the vacuum rating stamped on the valve, it will add fuel to the mix when you don’t want it. The rule of thumb is to use the power valve that opens at half the idle reading. For example, an engine with 10 in-Hg (inches of mercury) idle will call for a 5.0 power valve. ches of mercury) idle will call for a 5.0 power valve. If the engine makes 12 in-Hg at idle or more, the 6.5 valve that comes in most carburetors will be sufficient." This would be a factor in the 32/36 or others with a power valve.
 
Posted on Joe's behalf. It's sounds really good. Glad you got past cm85 advice. Vac to ignition is likely to fix the issue. One of the best I've ever heard. Good job.
 
Thanks. I wouldn't have done it without you guy's. I come in to this in a perfect timing, when the worst problems were already sorted out, so I could use the experience from this site, mix it with my own experience from a couple of Volvo 4 cylinder conversions I did with Weber 32/36. (Ok, repairing carburetors for a living for 15 years, might have helped to)

Today I did a 27 mile test run. Almost perfect. Maybe perfect. The color on the spark plugs are light tan. I have some videos I post later. It is strange that it runs so good without heated intake. As I said before I think the VW plenum is so good because it does not have a real "floor". More like 4 runners pointing upwards to the carb. That's my guess.
 
Ok. Uploaded some videos. The result from air/fuel ratio gauge is a bit confusing, need more testing with that. But! It told me that my engine was not lean as I thought, it was (is) running rich.

This is what the AFR gauge showed before I realized it was running rich, and I started fiddling with the power valve.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kORSaYD5WgE

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kORSaYD5WgE[/video]

Removing the spring to the power valve.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE1pyH_elOI

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE1pyH_elOI[/video]

This is what the AFR gauge is showing after the removal of the spring. A lot of mumbling back and forth from my side, and the result is not clear. I imagined that the "pops'/ miss firing was gone, but I am not sure. The spark plugs changed color, but that can be just from putting it on the road, and getting some load on the engine.
Also I have to say that "Innovations Motorsport" from which I bought the gauge, they say that a carburetted car that runs at 12 AFR, is ok, but they want max power. which is around 13, if I am not misstaken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbiEuQq28bY

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbiEuQq28bY[/video]


Here is my second trip after my conversion. Look at 11.42 min, when I turn left at a red light, and it says "New Hope Road". I give full throttle, the camera starts vibrate, and the sound goes crazy, but it takes off pretty good. After driving around at 1500 to 2500 rpm in the park, and I am back entering the high way (not on the film), it needs just a little bit to "clear the throat" because of that slow driving, but nothing that disturbed the power.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRVR0XKWSyE

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRVR0XKWSyE[/video]
 
About what you said ekvh. It would be interesting to dial in the power valve, but I think like Joe, and removing/ plug it is better. I read on a Jeep forum that off-roader don't like the power valve it can kick in and create a slip, when they don't want it. Or some reason like that.

I found a recommendation from Weber, about the hole in the throttle plate. They say to start with 0.7mm, and never go bigger then 5mm. I seen this holes before on carburetors, factory made.
 
el anders yes the whole idea that spring would make all perfect is rather wishful thinking ....taking the power valve out and turning the carb into a strait carb with no add ons ....brings everything to your control....on my mine even after that ..had to modify idle circuit on my motor...your bike ran ok it seemed but it is short of how mine runs ....in the total picture of things in my opinion ...the oldwing motor is wide range rpm motor ...on my bike the plugs are sort of on the dark brown side ...anytime after making it a strait carb if i improve plug color id also introduce lean pops as it couldnt get through the rpm 0 to redline smoothly so ..i went for what motor wanted and runs good ...and thats seems to be brown to dark brown range ...at this level my bike is not gassy smelling and runs clean ....
 
eric if your talking 32-36 carb no i havn't drilled it yet or tried it ...so dont know if i need it...the current carb on hooch is the dft 32-34 which is drilled. huge ...and over what weber recommends ...on my motor with drilled 9/64" hole it could load up and be rich just off idle... even though it running pretty well at this spot ... i decide to plug 2 of the 6 idle feeds as it also there just off idle circuit ...if i was going to do this again ...i might do the plugging of the idle feeds first ...and then go after hole in throttle plate....to this is where the mismatch in oldwing motor and the dft carb is way out of whack ...even in the strait carb set up .....in the dft carb mods thread ..as said the last step i did was the one that really made the matching carb and motor had the most impact ...followed by throttle plate hole....and third and really important also power valve deactivated .... to be clear the carb on hooch the 32-34 dft the power valve was factory blocked .... the power valves ive deactivated have all been on the 32-32 .....
 
Top