32DFT Carb Icing Issues, Heating with Coolant, Heated air Intake and other methods of Heating,

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westgl

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< it has been found that carb/ manifold heat may or may not be needed so use this thread for what's I worth>

I wanted to start a thread about different methods of Heating,

To address the icing issues

Some or all of these can be used during cold weather riding.

Then removed or adjusted, during warmer weather.

1. VW Plenum, and using coolant to provide heat
2. Heated Air from Radiator to be used as Heated Air Intake.
3. Using SS Grab Bars, or other Metal to metal contact between head and tube runner
4. Using a shroud or panels to enclose the carb and intake plenum on both side of engine to Keep Heat IN, at Plenum, Carb, & engine heat will provide more heated air to warm all carb & plenum parts, behind the panels and for heated air intake.
5. Heater bracket to bottom center of VW Plenum
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=100175#p100175:2im3u8g4 said:
westgl » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:01 pm[/url]":2im3u8g4]
I wanted to start a thread about different methods of Heating,

To address the icing issues

Some or all of these can be used during cold weather riding.

Then removed or adjusted, during warmer weather.

1. VW Plenum, and using coolant to provide heat
2. Heated Air from Radiator to be used as Heated Air Intake.
3. Using SS Grab Bars, or other Metal to metal contact between head and tube runner
4. Using a shroud or panels to enclose the carb and intake plenum on both side of engine to Keep Heat IN, at Plenum, Carb, & engine heat will provide more heated air to warm all carb & plenum parts, behind the panels and for heated air intake.
5. Heater bracket to bottom center of VW Plenum
I like this best. Simplest,easiest, and could add some real bling too. Polished copper or aluminum could add some real shine.
 
I have seen a lot of fuel/air heat exchangers from my aircraft days and while the idea is simple, getting it right isn't. I think the shroud might be the easiest route for this.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=100184#p100184:1gv71goi said:
slabghost » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:05 pm[/url]":1gv71goi]
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=100175#p100175:1gv71goi said:
westgl » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:01 pm[/url]":1gv71goi]
I wanted to start a thread about different methods of Heating,

To address the icing issues

Some or all of these can be used during cold weather riding.

Then removed or adjusted, during warmer weather.

1. VW Plenum, and using coolant to provide heat
2. Heated Air from Radiator to be used as Heated Air Intake.
3. Using SS Grab Bars, or other Metal to metal contact between head and tube runner
4. Using a shroud or panels to enclose the carb and intake plenum on both side of engine to Keep Heat IN, at Plenum, Carb, & engine heat will provide more heated air to warm all carb & plenum parts, behind the panels and for heated air intake.
5. Heater bracket to bottom center of VW Plenum
I like this best. Simplest,easiest, and could add some real bling too. Polished copper or aluminum could add some real shine.

I like the way you think slab.

Now to figure out the whole thing up front, so I buy parts once.

For Rev.4
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=100205#p100205:kzvhih39 said:
brianinpa » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:00 pm[/url]":kzvhih39]
I have seen a lot of fuel/air heat exchangers from my aircraft days and while the idea is simple, getting it right isn't. I think the shroud might be the easiest route for this.

I agree, it is simple, and if done right, can be removable for summer, if wanted.

I could start off with a Mock up piece piece of cardboard or some 3/16 textured Black plastic.

I saw some of that plastic somewhere locally, now i have to remember where.

But cardboard is easy to fabricate

Or maybe go with a thin piece of s.s. and wire brush it to match my new tube runners
 
fabricate the pieces out of cardboard until it has the look and shape you want. Duct tape that bugger on and test it.
 
Maybe it is because I am an electrician, but I keep thinking the heat conducting properties of copper could be our friend here.

On the top of the engine there are coolant runners going to each head as well as the main coolant return. I was thinking of getting some 1/2" or 3/4" copper water line and cutting them length-wise so they could be opened up and wrapped around those coolant lines. Also I would get a piece of copper sheet and form it to the shape of the underside of the plenum.

Then somehow run some more copper between the coolant line copper things and the underside of the plenum copper thing. Use heat transfer compound to get max heat transfer?

Then wrap the runners and plenum with insulating wrap.

Just my $.02

Brian
 
I'm probably stating the obvious, but I did not see it listed.
Remove the primary shroud first (black piece of tin between rad & carbs).
Or a few well placed hole saw cuts. lol
Depending on your cold / damp weather dealings, you may
get just the relief you need.
Different designs will require different fixes.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=100232#p100232:262pmn1u said:
HOTT » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:28 am[/url]":262pmn1u]
I'm probably stating the obvious, but I did not see it listed.
Remove the primary shroud first (black piece of tin between rad & carbs).
Or a few well placed hole saw cuts. lol
Depending on your cold / damp weather dealings, you may
get just the relief you need.
Different designs will require different fixes.

Yes Remove the heat shield between the radiator and carb, re-install support bracing brackets there are three of them that are engine mounting braces
 
I had a little time today so i thought i would play with the side skirting.

Here are a couple of pictures.

I was thinking, bare metals as discussed,

Or maybe color match painted, or offset painted

Or maybe painted skirts, with a polished alum. section, right over the tube runners to high light them.

that way some paint and some bling.

Also some rubber vacuum tubing, slit on one side then glued on to the perimeter would give these two panels a finished look.

There is a lot of different ways you can go, in stead of painting your engine a couple of nice looking side skirts can hide a whole lot of ugly.

Looks like three bolts will hold them in place.

It looks to me like some foam to fill the gaps between the frame and radiator will keep cold air out and aid in pulling air through the radiator.

We need to get enough flow into and exhaust to keep good engine cooling i do not want to sacrifice engine cooling, it is 3 times, exhaust as intake, since hot air expands.

I May need more exhaust opening so that drawing in cold air into the radiator will not be slowed down.

We will need to be conscience of this, if we start having a warmer engine on cooler days.

You could have a set of winter skirts and a set of summer skirts.

Here is a card board mock version





 
People would wonder what was behind that skirting.

That HD that you just left way behind you, would still be wondering as his view on your engine at the next stop light, would be very obscured.

Other than those cyl.'s and heads sticking out there's no telling, what is behind the engine Curtains.

It also keeps hands off of the Carb hardware when you are not around.
 
Humm,

A few LEDS on those side curtains could add a little something.

Going into imagination overload.

The front of those curtains are my front LED turn signal stalks I had to remove the side in the picture.

I may mod something in.

I have about 12 pairs of Caddy Tail lights from the CTS Northstar, they may look really good on those side curtains, they are about 13" long and about 1"-1-1/2" wide.

I have been wanting to use a pair of them on something, as they have a cool look to them.
 
Not that it's a bad look or ineffective but you do have the horns out in the wind and the air gap between should flow pretty free. Why not cover the runners out to the spark plug wells over the top and cover the front and back of the manifold down to the top of the motor? A lot less material needed that way and it would utilize convection heat from the top of the motor and coolant pipes. Probably best to leave a little gap at the top of the motor Just to prevent rattles and rubbing damage.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=100314#p100314:3n2s55wy said:
slabghost » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:39 pm[/url]":3n2s55wy]
Not that it's a bad look or ineffective but you do have the horns out in the wind and the air gap between should flow pretty free. Why not cover the runners out to the spark plug wells over the top and cover the front and back of the manifold down to the top of the motor? A lot less material needed that way and it would utilize convection heat from the top of the motor and coolant pipes. Probably best to leave a little gap at the top of the motor Just to prevent rattles and rubbing damage.


I could add a rounded cover to the side curtains, that would cover the intake runners out to the head like you were saying.

That could be the Chrome section while the rest of the curtain could be painted or something else.

As for the perimeter edge I would Slit some vacuum hose spread it open and push it on the edge to get rid of rattles and provide a soft edge with a finished look to it.

I would glue that vacuum hose edging on with some really good glue.
 
Maybe a piece of good packing foam could be put on the inside or behind the curtain, Under the runners, so that that opening is closed to keep the heat from the water line in, and not blow out, more contained.

That hole would be blocked, from under the runners.

I would need to also put something between the frame and the radiator to fill that gap too.
 
Ya I think so!

I am thinking I am going to put a strip of LEDs in the Leading edge for turn signals

And my Caddy CTS tail lights in the trailing edge for a combination tail lights and Front & Rear turn signals all in one.

Maybe even a small LED driving light built into the leading edge.

With something similar to a wall map pocket, to cover the manifolds and intake runners that are peeking out with the opening at the bottom
 
I orderd my carb and air cleaner from Tom yesterday, had a long talk with him about heating too. I told him I was going down the VW plenum route as being the simplest of the options. During the discussion he was insisting that I could and in all probability would get icing inside the plenum due to the nature of the beast (gasoline) and it's great properties of loosing heat while atomising into vapour. So Tom and I discussed the possibility of utilising the water pipes that would be under the plenum.

We both sort of agreed that a heat exchanger between the Carb and the plenum manifold would not work optimally and icing would /could still take place in the plenum. The idea solution we thought would be to "weld, solder" or fix in some way to the bottom of the plenum a heated area (floor of the plenum) to warm the base and walls of the plenum and in consequence "heat" the fuel that would a be in the plenum and down the delivery tubes/runners.

Now as yet I don't have my plenum, it hasn't arrived yet but I think that heating the plenum is the right way to go. Some years ago I took my Private Pilots Licence, and one thing sticks in my head (I no longer pilot a plane) but I do remember that when we ascended to a higher altitude we always had to switch on the carb heater before pulling back on the stick. Failure to do so could and often would cause the card to freeze. I know that up there is a lot different to down here, but I am not an automotive engineer, but I put this to my old man (now 91) and he agreed with Tom that some form of heat would be needed in the plenum.

So I will be looking to tap into the GL's coolant system to provide heat to the bottom of the plenum. I suspect that the plenum is flat and that a box could be fabricated with an in and out pipe and incorporated in the cooling system. :builder:
 
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