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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#76  Unread postPosted: November 26th, 2017, 11:23 am

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Have been doing more thinking on this issue. The more research I do, I find that there are a lot of myths surrounding what we do to the electrical system, and how we do this.

If you will indulge me for this post, I will explain my thought process.

The design of the GW wiring is such that it has a power junction - see pic:
Attachment:
gl1200 charge system schematic.JPG
This is where the red wire from the starter solenoid is joined to the regulator output wire(s) before the regulator output wire goes to the starter solenoid. I found this to be a key junction in the installation of my external alternator, and JoeBarTeam has corroborated this as well by changing the wiring of the new regulator to suit the OEM installed wiring harness. His electrical system is now working well, and the dash voltage reading is correct.

The OEM schematics are quite detailed regardless of the bike, and all loads are after this junction (upstream from the junction) and mostly after the ignition switch. This is designed specifically to achieve a well operating electrical system. The only power going to the starter solenoid from the alternator is to charge the battery back to 100% after which the battery only receives a trickle charge.

JoeBarTeam mentions that the voltage drops and stays low when the driving lights are turned on - I would surmise that the power feed for these driving lights is from the battery. Voltage drop of 1.0 to 1.5 VDC. What should happen is there should be a voltage drop, then the regulator compensates for this drop and the electrical system voltage should return to the mean electrical system voltage of 14.2 VDC, plus or minus of course, but as close as possible.

Since the regulator is visually not compensating for this voltage drop, I am inclined to think that the regulator is sensing a large voltage drop and comparing it to the regulator internal reference voltage of 14.2 VDC and is increasing the alternator output to compensate, but not achieving the aim of returning to 14.2 VDC. Since the electrical system voltage is not increasing and returning to the regulator reference voltage of 14.2 VDC (or close to), the current in the electrical system is probably too high and damage to electrical components could occur, including the internal alternator.

if the electrical system voltage is extremely low, in this case by 1 to 1.5 VDC, the alternator output through the regulator has to be increased to compensate. This is how a regulator works.

Since the electrical system voltage drop is 1 to 1.5 VDC when the driving lights are turned on and the alternator output is not sufficient to compensate for this drop - this is corroborated by the fact the electrical system voltage does not return back to the mean value of 14.2 VDC - two issues may be at play. Where the load is connected into the electrical system is wrong, or the driving lights are a huge short bleeding power off to ground.

I submit that the issue is probably where the driving lights get power from. In this regard, I would recommend that the power connection for the driving lights be temporarily attached to where the regulator output wire is connected to the OEM harness red/white wires. The voltage at this junction is 14.2 VDC and since all electrical components are rated for 14.2 VDC - if not and just for 12 VDC, there would be a lot of electrical component failures - I surmise that the system will react to the additional load and the electrical system voltage will be maintained at or around 14.2 VDC, not the 13.2 to 12.7 VDC as it is operating now when the driving lights are turned on. The power feed for the lights can also be as I mentioned in my previous post after the ignition switch, or from the red wire to the ignition switch, but upstream of the power junction as shown in the attached schematic. If the power feed connection to the driving lights from the electrical system is at the output from the regulator, or on the wire going to the ignition switch, it will be live at all times and this must be considered if a permanent connection is considered.

Just my thoughts on the issue.

Cheers
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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#77  Unread postPosted: November 26th, 2017, 2:31 pm

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Sounds super sound to me ...I will be trying this type of thinking on hooch

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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#78  Unread postPosted: November 26th, 2017, 3:12 pm

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With a Mofset regulator voltage will be very stable and not jump around as much, the only time you will get low readings is when the revs are too low for the load.
Here is the Buell repair link with the second hand Honda Mofset regulator that I used.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9139&hilit=Buell&start=15#p138432

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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#79  Unread postPosted: November 27th, 2017, 7:26 am

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My Rides: 1986 GL 1200 Aspencade
1986 Yamaha FJ 1200
1991 Yamaha FJ 1200 ABS
I sold them again long time ago:
1986 Yamaha FZ 750 to 900 ccm
1987 Yamaha FZR 1000
1988 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 with v-max intake
1987 GL 1200 sidecar EML
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hi oldwingers
i did a mistake when i wrote about the driving lights. with the voltage drop i ment the normal oem lights of the bike without accessory lamps. i also have driving lamps. they take together 36 watts, are directly wired to the battery through a relay and a fuse and i use them as day lights so i don't have to use the oem lights. with the oem lights i have 13 position leds and 4 brake leds that i can turn separetly on and of. this take only a few watts together.
the voltage drop of 1 to 1.5 volts are when i put the oem lights on or the driving lamps on or all lamps (with leds) at once. it doesn't matter what lamps i turn on for the voltage drop or the high of the voltage drop. this means for me that it doesn't matter how the driving lamps are wired in this case. right?

greez
joebarteam

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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#80  Unread postPosted: November 27th, 2017, 8:30 am

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2008 GL1800

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Have to disagree. I agree with the voltage drop, but not that the voltage should stay at that level. The electrical system is designed so that when loads are applied, the voltage should drop but the regulator should increase the voltage output to compensate for this drop and the voltage should recover and return to the 14.2 VDC.

Where do all the position and extra brake lights get power from. Sounds to me that you have the same issue with these as well.

Put a voltmeter on the connection between the regulator output wire where it joins the red/white wire - confirm voltage at 14.2 VDC. Take the driving light(s) wire from the battery and connect to this connection. Start the bike and see how the electrical system works with this setup. Worst case is nothing changes and you can revert to how the driving lights were originally connected.

If it works and the electrical system reacts as I think it might, make this a permanent connection. Better still connect a 12 gauge wire to this location and install a new power bar that you can add loads to in the future. I would then look into the running/brake lights you have installed and determine how these are connected into the system, and rectify that connection.

My main focus is getting the system to react as it should, maintaining 14.2 VDC at all times.

Having failed all this, install an amp meter in the system and check the system current. Your bike has a 350 watt stator that will give you approximately 25 amps max at 14.2 VDC - I used 14.2 VDC because the regulator is designed to maintain an electrical system voltage of 14.2 VDC. Could be overloading the system.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#81  Unread postPosted: November 27th, 2017, 10:48 am

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Joined: January 5th, 2014, 2:35 pm
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Location: Pierre de Bresse
Local time: December 13th, 2017, 8:21 am
Country:  France (fr)
My Rides: 1986 GL 1200 Aspencade
1986 Yamaha FJ 1200
1991 Yamaha FJ 1200 ABS
I sold them again long time ago:
1986 Yamaha FZ 750 to 900 ccm
1987 Yamaha FZR 1000
1988 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 with v-max intake
1987 GL 1200 sidecar EML
1993 HD Ultra Glide

Profile Personal album

i see your point of view and i will try it the way you tell me.

is it important how additional lights are wired when the voltage drop occurs when only the oem lights are on?
i even took away the fuse of the driving lights at this test.

the running leds are connected at a wire of the oem running lights with a switch in between and i did the same with the brake leds to the oem brake lights.

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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#82  Unread postPosted: November 27th, 2017, 1:27 pm

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My Rides: 1981 GL1100 Vetter "Rats Nest"
1987 CBR1000f Naked "The Pig"
1991 CBR1000f "Red"
1998 GL1500c "Val"

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My YouTube Channel
Just use relays from the battery and you will reduce the load through the existing wiring and junctions. Your other potential current/voltage issue will be on the return side (negative/earth) connections.

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Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#83  Unread postPosted: December 4th, 2017, 11:19 am

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Total Posts: 173
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Location: Pierre de Bresse
Local time: December 13th, 2017, 8:21 am
Country:  France (fr)
My Rides: 1986 GL 1200 Aspencade
1986 Yamaha FJ 1200
1991 Yamaha FJ 1200 ABS
I sold them again long time ago:
1986 Yamaha FZ 750 to 900 ccm
1987 Yamaha FZR 1000
1988 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 with v-max intake
1987 GL 1200 sidecar EML
1993 HD Ultra Glide

Profile Personal album

Ansimp wrote:
Just use relays from the battery and you will reduce the load through the existing wiring and junctions. Your other potential current/voltage issue will be on the return side (negative/earth) connections.
hi,
i'm still working on these mods. my garage has outside temperature. we got snow. it makes working hard and my fingers do not properly.

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