question about wiring and wiring harnesses

Classic Goldwings

Help Support Classic Goldwings:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

crusierlover

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
217
Reaction score
0
Location
denton
Fortunately my bike is so pristine I have no wiring issues. knock on wood.I would hate to have to pull a motor to replace the alternator. This could be long post and have even longer answers.

I recently sold all my extra parts and my 78 parts bike. Even though that bike was totally corroded and weather beaten I could put a battery in it, put a screwdriver across the solenoid and it would turn over like crazy. That means that part of the harness was still intact. Many of the plastic connectors looked well worn out. When I was delusional enough to think I could resurrect the parts bike I bought a harness off ebay that looked pretty good. On the ngw forum guys take out their motors and everything else and paint their frame. There are 9 million things connected and running along the frame from front to back on these bikes. I cant imagine getting all that back together.

My reason for posting is this. I want to buy another wing just to customize. I have many ideas I think are cool. My obervations are as follows,with the final question is there somewhere a guide to makiing a barebones noncomplicated harness. Headlight,tailight,brake light,starter and coils,r/r,start kill switch? I don't know anything about diodes and technical stuff. I also know about a company vintage connections. I would think many wires and connectors would not be needed with a stripped down bike.

1.wiring diagrams-they might as well be in chinese. I know some colors consistently mean certain things, at least on a particular bike. such as green is always hot,or red is, and black and or black with a white stripe is a ground etc.

2. I have been on at least 10 forums over the years. These old bikes are always coming up with new problems. But so are 57 chevys and I love them. In a car show the 57 looks totally stock but the wiring,brakes,engine etc are new.Because the old stuff is a failure waiting to happen. Wouldn't it be neat if someone could come up with a new harness. The m mode device only takes your old wiring and plugs it into a new spot on the device.

3. Many parts of the harness are plug and play. Anyone can do those. Some are like colored bullet connectors.

4. Inside most headlights is a rats nest of wires. Many are not plug and play. Taking pictures,making notes helps but not enough for me. No one here works on old bikes.

5. Start circuit-one large gauge redwire from positive post of battery to positive of regulator, to positive post of ignition switch, to positive side of kill/run switch to positive side of solenoid. Then do the same with a large gauge black wire to the negative side. That powers up the start system. Right? If I understand right neither side of the solenoid is positive or negative until you run a wire. If so, that's all I know.

Other than one cannot have one single black ground wire with everything spliced into from the front to the back as I have seen before. I also know everything that can be grounded to the frame,making sure its well grounded, dielectric grease inside the connectors,etc are basic.

But based on point# 5 how then how does one get the coils involved. To have a working solenoid and key switch doesn't give it a spark.

This is a long post.I am sorry for that. Just get me started. These bikes are 35 years old, if a connector is good great. But many guys have taken the harness out and found many as would be expected problems with the wiring such as bare wires,missing insulation and others.

I have an acquaintance Jacob of j and r rodwerks. He is a world class builder of hotrods. He buys wire by the mile and redoes everything, plus many old cars have nice aftermarket harnesses. No one is going to make a new harness for an old goldwing. They are not rare or collector items or priceless as some old bikes are. So we have to make one ourselves. That's what I have boiled this down to.
 
yes thats a a lot of ?..that have no simple answers seems honda changed things yr to yr it seems and its really hard to go simple without changing a lot of things on the bike ...im still trying to get there myself LOL
 
The simple answer is that the single most important thing about wiring is understanding a wiring schematic, wire gauges (size of the wire) and how much amperage or current can be safely carried through that wire (or connection).

The Honda schematics can be a pain because they are one line schematics, but usually all on one page (which makes them harder to follow). The color schematics we have in the gallery are much easier to follow, but they are still hard to read in the end.

Honda actually did a pretty good job from year to year keeping the same color code for the same type of system even if the wire gauge increased in size. I am currently rebuilding my '82 wire harness to modernize it. Many of the wires are fine. I am using parts and pieces from an '86 SEi fuse/relay panel and I was surprised that the color codes from the '81 harness I have installed on my bike match the '82 harness and the '86 relay panel.

I agree that making new harnesses for sale wouldn't be all that fruitful since each year Goldwing was a little bit different and there doesn't appear that there is a big market for this.

As far as a basic wire harness, sure it can be done easily if you are familiar with working with wire, connectors and know how you want the bike wired. Is it for the backyard mechanic with no knowledge of how the wiring systems are setup, I would say no.

The last thing you would want is a homemade, off the top of the head, "I think it works this way" wire harness end up catching fire directly underneath your privates! :hihihi:
 
[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=189524#p189524:2ns4u0l8 said:
mcgovern61 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:30 am[/url]":2ns4u0l8]
The simple answer is that the single most important thing about wiring is understanding a wiring schematic, wire gauges (size of the wire) and how much amperage or current can be safely carried through that wire (or connection).

The Honda schematics can be a pain because they are one line schematics, but usually all on one page (which makes them harder to follow). The color schematics we have in the gallery are much easier to follow, but they are still hard to read in the end.

Honda actually did a pretty good job from year to year keeping the same color code for the same type of system even if the wire gauge increased in size. I am currently rebuilding my '82 wire harness to modernize it. Many of the wires are fine. I am using parts and pieces from an '86 SEi fuse/relay panel and I was surprised that the color codes from the '81 harness I have installed on my bike match the '82 harness and the '86 relay panel.

I agree that making new harnesses for sale wouldn't be all that fruitful since each year Goldwing was a little bit different and there doesn't appear that there is a big market for this.

As far as a basic wire harness, sure it can be done easily if you are familiar with working with wire, connectors and know how you want the bike wired. Is it for the backyard mechanic with no knowledge of how the wiring systems are setup, I would say no.

The last thing you would want is a homemade, off the top of the head, "I think it works this way" wire harness end up catching fire directly underneath your privates! :hihihi:

yeah the fire under the private thing is something i dont want to try.When I owned a virago, probably the ugliest bike ever made, perhaps second to the vulcan 750 on viragotechforum.com there is a guy there who made harnesses from scratch.Anyone who knows yamahas knows their harnesses are a nightmare.From all the nonessential safety switches, reserve lighting systems etc they are a pain.He does an excellent tutorial on this.He starts out with a schematic,blank square.Then he puts on boxes labeled r/r,ignition switch,kill/run switch,solenoid,etc.He shows just the red wire going to those places.Then he runs a ground wire.Then he adds in coils.then lights,horn,etc.One at a time.You can start from scratch and create with his help as you go.I wish we had that here. I was able to successfully eliminate several safety switches and get the starter where it would spin via key and kill run switch.I made my harness on a piece of plywood in the patio then transferred it to the bike.But the bike was junk so I got rid of it.stay away from pre 1985 viragos fyi
 
[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=189523#p189523:2yz2f2fp said:
joedrum » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:49 am[/url]":2yz2f2fp]
yes thats a a lot of ?..that have no simple answers seems honda changed things yr to yr it seems and its really hard to go simple without changing a lot of things on the bike ...im still trying to get there myself LOL

the problem is not some changes from year to year for me.Its how does each circuit go together,and how do you get ignition,starting,sparking,and lighting circuits all going and not spliced into the wrong place.Allowing too much or too little current to any certain area.I wonder is there is a basic wiring course available somewhere.
 
Moved to the electrical section.
Manufacturers did not go out of their way to add a bunch of confusing wires. Simplest for novices is stock wiring connect the connectors and it should work. Can it be made simpler? Certainly. Is it simple to do? NO.
 
I used to own harleys.There are several dvds called fix your hog.They do need fixing a lot.Why couldnt a genius from this forum and I say that sincerely not sarcastically, do a tutorial.Take some wire, connectors, test light, create a harness from scratch and show us.I would be willing to pay for a view of that.These motors run after 35 years,much of the wiring does too.But as many have found when disassembling their bikes it was a wonder how some of them worked or did not short out and or catch fire.
 
With help from the members here I think your goal of a custom build is very possible. One circuit at a time should make it much easier. Keep in mind though that when finished you will not be able to use a stock diagram to diagnose issues except in part. If you maintain the color codes for each circuit that is commonly used that will help.
You'll need to start with the list of components you will be using.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=189530#p189530:2hlpfiw3 said:
slabghost » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:55 am[/url]":2hlpfiw3]
Moved to the electrical section.
Manufacturers did not go out of their way to add a bunch of confusing wires. Simplest for novices is stock wiring connect the connectors and it should work. Can it be made simpler? Certainly. Is it simple to do? NO.

so basically I am screwed if I have wiring problems.precisely why I have avoided many bikes if the wiring is the least suspect.I can rebuild a motor,even complex ones.But wiring and I simply do not connect the synapses.
 
No you are not screwed at all. As stated the guys here can walk you through each circuit. But it depends on the components you will be using. For instance. Will you be using the 80-81 ignition system or the 86 ignition or points or dyna or C5? Each has it's own group of must have components. Will you be using all led lights or a mix or? There are far too many possible combinations that will work to devise a simple harness that will connect to all.
 
Good place to start is YouTube videos. There are some very well done instructional videos on the basics of wiring and how things work but I see you had already made a harness on plywood for another bike so I'm not sure what the questions are you're having.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=189536#p189536:1fz16ki1 said:
dan filipi » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:48 am[/url]":1fz16ki1]
Good place to start is YouTube videos. There are some very well done instructional videos on the basics of wiring and how things work.
thanks to you guys.Good information
 
[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=189537#p189537:18rzls6d said:
crusierlover » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:11 am[/url]":18rzls6d]
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=189536#p189536:18rzls6d said:
dan filipi » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:48 am[/url]":18rzls6d]
Good place to start is YouTube videos. There are some very well done instructional videos on the basics of wiring and how things work.
thanks to you guys.Good information
On one virago forum a guy showed how to do one from scratch.Starting with 6 feet of wire, same colors as the main wires of a virago.And what gauge each should be.I have talked this topic to death,sorry. I try to look at color schematics.It makes no sense how a wire starts out brown at the back and for some reason the same wire emerges as green or orange or blue or something.Why do they not stick with a color from front to back.Even hot wires are not always red.Anyhow, i appreciate all the input.If I could make a harness I guarantee I could do a series of videos that showed how to do it for a guy like me.I wont comment further.This becomes a circular conversation.Motor overhauls are much easier to me.
 
there was so much inovation and also epa regulatoins going on during the oldwing yrs seems things change so much there just isnt a certain way they did it ignition parts and wiring change a lot ...and really is hard to make sense of things ..and the wire colors changing was on top of all that ...i also can deal with motors much eaiserLOL
 
[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=189531#p189531:3n7tvu0i said:
crusierlover » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:59 am[/url]":3n7tvu0i]
I used to own harleys.There are several dvds called fix your hog.They do need fixing a lot.Why couldnt a genius from this forum and I say that sincerely not sarcastically, do a tutorial.Take some wire, connectors, test light, create a harness from scratch and show us.I would be willing to pay for a view of that.These motors run after 35 years,much of the wiring does too.But as many have found when disassembling their bikes it was a wonder how some of them worked or did not short out and or catch fire.

Old Harleys are pretty easy to create harnesses for as they have so few circuits. You could do the same for a stripped down Goldwing but if you want all the bells and whistles a stock harness is the way to go for me. The easiest way to improve old wiring and switches is to add relays to the high current circuits.
 
how about some answers to some basic questions? irregardless of schematics and I know somone here knows:
1.What gauge wire is used for things like the voltage regulator,coils,solenoid,major components
2.How about the lights-same gauge for headlight,taillight,brake light, signals?
3.Best size for the main ground cable
4.In regard to splices do you splice into same gauge with same gauge? How many times can you do that without drawing too much current.I assume the electricity say coming from a rear turn signal should be going through the same gauge in the front signal,or signal light, or horn.etc.
6.how about the fuse block.Biggest gauge of all? One side of the block would go to the positive battery and the other the negative side?
7.If a bike has a safety switch like kickstand is it ok to cut it, or pull it loose, cap it off to disable it without creating an open circuit?
8. Which type connector is better.bullet,spade,plastic with male and female prongs,electrical tape?

I had 2 83 ventures.It had about a 1000 wires.It and many other bikes if one wire is cut in the wrong place many circuits are disabled.The schematic written in chinese gives no clue which one that was.So is it basically if one can figure it out best not to splice into the starter,battery,coil or ignition circuits?

I wont ask any more questions about wiring,promise. One last one-if there is a basic course about this, did you guys that know this stuff take one as part of job training.I am a registered nurse in ICU for the past 40 years.No way a new nurse can walk in there and start functioning efficiently without someone like me showing them the ropes.So the 8 questions are my starting point.
 
A lot of reading, internet has changed how people learn - lots of videos available now, and if you are fortunate you were part of an industry that allowed you to learn skill set(s) that help with bringing an older bike back to life. If you have done any additional house wiring, bikes are essentially the same - fuse at the panel, wire out to the load (receptacle, etc) power return via ground and neutral.

Electrics is much like plumbing, have a source and it has to go somewhere. Electricity flows from positive to negative (mostly) on these bikes. Knowing what current draw the item has allows you to put in a fuse on the power (source) side.

Get good tools, be selective, buy what you need. Don't get hung up on tool packages - there will be items you will never use. Point in case are compressors. Some bundles especially those with three different types of brad nailers are good, but you will rarely use the nailers and these will collect dust. Buy a compressor sans accessories and then accessorize with what you need. Better to have a small selection of good quality tools that you need than lots of less expensive tools that you may or may not use and have to replace more often.

Back to your question(s). 16 gauge wire will do for almost everything. 8 gauge for the main ground from battery to frame.

Wire size for spicing is related to current. For an estimate - 12 gauge 20 amps - 14 gauge wire 15 amps - 16 gauge wire 10 amps. How many loads can be on a circuit depends on current draw, what is being used when.

For grounds - use the same gauge wire from the load to ground. If you combine the grounds, increase the size of the wire that ultimately goes to ground. Use a ground bus bar to consolidate grounds. Sample picture of one I used:
IMG_20160102_133710398.jpg


If a bike has a safety item in the circuit, not recommended to disable unless it is just for a get home fix. Side stand safety switches should stay enabled. Embarrassing to ride off with your side stand down and not know it. These older GWs have a good lean angle before the side stand touches and a touch down at speed is not nice.

Connector type is dependent on application. To disconnect, an OEM style connector or one like a trailer connector is good as are solderless connectors. For permanent installs, solder splice is best; however, solderless connectors with shrink tube are good as well.

Get a good pair of wire strippers and a separate crimper. Worth the extra dollars. A good crimper that is rated for 10 gauge to 24 gauge wire can also do 8 and possibly 6 gauge wire crimps. Here is one I bpought:
Crimp Tools.jpg
I have also upgraded the wire stripper that is in the picture.

When you do wiring changes/upgrades, use wire numbers to designate the wires and enter into a spreadsheet. Also annotate the schematic that you changed, or do a new schematic just for that circuit.

Lots to think about and possibly learn. Hope this helps.

Cheers
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=189666#p189666:wromfgka said:
Rednaxs60 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:59 am[/url]":wromfgka]
A lot of reading, internet has changed how people learn - lots of videos available now, and if you are fortunate you were part of an industry that allowed you to learn skill set(s) that help with bringing an older bike back to life. If you have done any additional house wiring, bikes are essentially the same - fuse at the panel, wire out to the load (receptacle, etc) power return via ground and neutral.

Electrics is much like plumbing, have a source and it has to go somewhere. Electricity flows from positive to negative (mostly) on these bikes. Knowing what current draw the item has allows you to put in a fuse on the power (source) side.

Get good tools, be selective, buy what you need. Don't get hung up on tool packages - there will be items you will never use. Point in case are compressors. Some bundles especially those with three different types of brad nailers are good, but you will rarely use the nailers and these will collect dust. Buy a compressor sans accessories and then accessorize with what you need. Better to have a small selection of good quality tools that you need than lots of less expensive tools that you may or may not use and have to replace more often.

Back to your question(s). 16 gauge wire will do for almost everything. 8 gauge for the main ground from battery to frame.

Wire size for spicing is related to current. For an estimate - 12 gauge 20 amps - 14 gauge wire 15 amps - 16 gauge wire 10 amps. How many loads can be on a circuit depends on current draw, what is being used when.

For grounds - use the same gauge wire from the load to ground. If you combine the grounds, increase the size of the wire that ultimately goes to ground. Use a ground bus bar to consolidate grounds. Sample picture of one I used:View attachment 1

If a bike has a safety item in the circuit, not recommended to disable unless it is just for a get home fix. Side stand safety switches should stay enabled. Embarrassing to ride off with your side stand down and not know it. These older GWs have a good lean angle before the side stand touches and a touch down at speed is not nice.

Connector type is dependent on application. To disconnect, an OEM style connector or one like a trailer connector is good as are solderless connectors. For permanent installs, solder splice is best; however, solderless connectors with shrink tube are good as well.

Get a good pair of wire strippers and a separate crimper. Worth the extra dollars. A good crimper that is rated for 10 gauge to 24 gauge wire can also do 8 and possibly 6 gauge wire crimps. Here is one I bpought:I have also upgraded the wire stripper that is in the picture.

When you do wiring changes/upgrades, use wire numbers to designate the wires and enter into a spreadsheet. Also annotate the schematic that you changed, or do a new schematic just for that circuit.

Lots to think about and possibly learn. Hope this helps.

Cheers
file.php

file.php
Great information.Thanks a bunch.I am going to buy some of those crimpers for sure.Your explanations are good otherwise I wouldnt understand them.
 
Top