LOGIN  
Welcome to Classicgoldwings Chat Live Chat:   >   It is currently April 23rd, 2018, 9:13 am
Who Is Online: AApple, Jonesz, mcblitzen ....1 guest(s) viewing this forum
Jump to:  

Portal » Forums » Resources » Vendors and Parts Suppliers and Services » C5Performance

Welcome to Classic Goldwings!
You are now viewing the forums as a guest which has very limited access to the forums.
Log in or create a free account.

Print view
Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message

Offline

Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#1  Unread postPosted: December 21st, 2015, 9:09 am

User avatar
**** *
**** *
Site supporter
C5 Club

Topic author



Joined: June 3rd, 2013, 8:23 pm
Last visit: October 11th, 2017, 11:45 am

Total Posts: 737
Active Topics: 33

Total Images: 92
Location: Hortonville, Wisconsin
Local time: April 23rd, 2018, 12:13 pm
Country:  United States (us)
My Bike Models: 1978 GL1000
2012 Yamaha Super Tenere
CB750's (many)
CB350
CB175

Profile Personal album

I have been toying with MAP sensors lately and wanted to share it here.

As many of you know, we can change timing maps on the C5 ignition while riding.
Most people use toggle switches, a small rotary selector switch, or a VOES (vacuum operated) switch to accomplish timing changes.

While those methods work great, the VOES can only change timing maps once. It is a grounding switch held closed by vacuum. Under a load your engine vacuum drops, which causes the VOES to open the switch.

The "ungrounding" of the switch causes the C5 to change maps and reduce timing. After the load is gone (climbing a large hill) the VOES once again closes the circuit and the timing goes back to the stock map.

I've been working alot with tractors this year, particularly vintage pulling tractors. With motorcycles we see a wide range of rpm but very little change in load because we can change transmission gears. Tractors must remain in just one gear during a pull. RPM changes very little but the LOAD gets greater and greater.

Using a MAP sensor would be a big advantage and allow THREE of the four timing maps inside the C5 to be used if load becomes high enough.
The rider/driver does not have to do anything...it happens automatically. I believe this would also be an advantage on touring motorcycles.

***************************************************************************************************************

How does it work?

An automotive style MAP sensor compares engine intake vacuum to a normal pressure (atmospheric pressure) and outputs voltage based on the difference between the two. We simply feed a regulated voltage in (typically 5.0 volts but I'm using 4.4V) and the MAP sensor outputs a varying voltage based on engine vacuum. That voltage signal is used to reduce timing only when your engine is working harder than normal.

This is an accurate affordable method to convert engine LOAD to a voltage signal we can use. By converting vacuum to a voltage signal we can change our sensor type from DIGITAL (grounded or ungrounded) to an ANALOG signal where it now prompts us for a voltage value.

Example:

You connect a vacuum gauge to your intake manifold. While riding down a flat road you have 18" Hg vacuum. Now you get to a big hill, and instead of downshifting you stay on the throttle and power up the hill. Your vacuum drops to 8" until you reach the top.

Now you do the same thing with a passenger and notice the vacuum drops to 4" on the same hill, because you are carrying a heavier load you are forced to downshift a gear to keep the engine from detonating, and your speed is reduced because of this.

If you had our C5 installed with a MAP sensor you could program the ignition to retard timing when your engine reaches 8" and again at 5" of vacuum. This allows the engine to run more efficiently under load, it will maintain rpm easier, and you might not have to downshift. Plus the engine is working better because LOAD is matched to TIMING.

Once you crest the hill the MAP sensor will read normal vacuum and the ignition will advance timing back to normal.

**KEY POINT** This all happens without you turning a knob, flipping switches, or thinking about it. That is why modern cars use MAP sensors.

Right now I'm testing a MAP sensor and plotting a chart of voltage -vs- vacuum. Next step will be measuring a few vehicles to determine when to reduce timing.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. You must LOGIN or REGISTER to view these files.

_________________________________

http://www.c5ignitions.com

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsjTrvH26j1bkF_uDZu1qnw


Top  

Offline

Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#2  Unread postPosted: December 21st, 2015, 9:49 am

User avatar
Global Moderator
C5 Club

Joined: June 12th, 2010, 6:35 am
Last visit: Today, 5:28 am

Total Posts: 14698
Active Topics: 148

Total Images: 112
Location: eastern Ohio
Local time: April 23rd, 2018, 1:13 pm
Country:  United States (us)
My Bike Models: 98 Valkyrie, 84 Standard, X2 80GL1100,81GL1100,82KZ750,81 Seca750 ++

Profile Personal album

Interesting concept. Seems to me the need will be pretty limited in that most bikes are ridden solo most of the time. Why is Mass Air Pressure better to use than Mass Air Flow? Does this require updating the software? If the advance points are spread out and at the proper increments wouldn't the drop in rpm automatically put it in a more effective retarded timing?

_________________________________

Vote NO on taxes, levies, and incumbents.
Every day I learn I know less than I thought I did.
Every time something is made idiot proof. The world produces a better idiot!
Maturity like wisdom seldom arrives without age. Far too often though age arrives without either.
ImageImage Image
Politicians are like diapers. They need changed often. For the same reason.
A fine is tax you pay for doing wrong. A tax is fine you pay for doing well.
Second place makes you first loser.


Top  

Online

Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#3  Unread postPosted: December 21st, 2015, 9:56 am

User avatar
Global Moderator
Site supporter

Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 10:12 am
Last visit: Today, 4:38 am

Total Posts: 8424
Active Topics: 1023

Total Images: 1045
Location: Duncanville, Texas
Local time: April 23rd, 2018, 12:13 pm
Country:  United States (us)
My Bike Models: 1981 GL1100 Innerstate :>)
1996 GL1500 Innerstate
Image

Profile Personal album

My YouTube Channel
Ongoing R&D on the C5 system is making it more and more useful for the masses. :clapping:
This deal with using a MAP sensor is leaps and bounds better than using switches to change the timing. The MAP sensor set-up will control the timing according to what the ENGINE needs, AS it needs it. The only next logical step is a linear programming that will vary the timing across the board, according to engine load through-out the RPM range according to the info from the MAP sensor, which would be an improvement over the "stepped" changes available now. I can see it happening, too, with all of the improvements, and the dedication of the C5 team. Baby steps!
Excellent info, Paul.....youse guys are kickin a$$ and takin names! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :thanks:

_________________________________

I know the voices aren't real...but they have some really cool ideas
Joel AdamsImage
1981 GL1100 GoldWing Interstate
1996 GL1500 GoldWing Interstate

28941 29867
Image


Top  
Post new topic Reply to topic


Print view |
LOGIN  
Welcome to Classicgoldwings Chat Live Chat:   >   It is currently April 23rd, 2018, 9:13 am
Who Is Online: AApple, Jonesz, mcblitzen ....1 guest(s) viewing this forum
Jump to:  

Portal » Forums » Resources » Vendors and Parts Suppliers and Services » C5Performance

Welcome to Classic Goldwings!
You are now viewing the forums as a guest which has very limited access to the forums.
Log in or create a free account.

Display topics from previous:  Sort by  

Contact Us Terms of Use Privacy Policy

The views and opinions expressed at this public user forum are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy
or position of Classicgoldwings.com, it's moderators or administrators, or it's forum founder or owner.
Any content provided by our bloggers or authors are of their own opinion, and are not intended to malign any religion,
ethic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.


Copyright © classicgoldwings.com All Rights Reserved

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group


CGW - Chat