Replaced head gasket (again)

I have a feeling this is a common problem, but I'll ask anyway.
My left exhaust started fogging at start-up, obviously leaking coolant. I recall a recent incident where a grocery bag hanging from the mirror accidentally hit the kill switch and I absent-mindedly turned it back on with the bike in gear, resulting in a loud backfire. Pretty sure this blew out the head gasket (again) so I swapped in a spare. I love spares.

Three questions, though:
1. First off, does this look consistent with a backfire? Should I be worried about some other problem causing this coolant leak?

2. I noticed this "Blue Devil" stuff in Auto Zone that's supposed to seal blown head gaskets, cracked blocks, etc. I'm too skeptical to try it without a really good recommendation, but I thought I'd ask even though I've already replaced the gasket.
3. Since I noticed the leak, I've been adding only straight water (distilled, of course) instead of anti-freeze mix, and I'm curious if this can cause any problems outside of freezing temperatures.

I really doubt a backfire could blow out a properly seated gasket. It is more likely you have some distortion of the gasket surface either on the block or head. Straight water is not a good coolant and may cause overheating and gasket failure. Along with other enjoyable things like corrosion and chunks of mineral flowing through.

Yeah, I remember my auto tech instructor going on about how antifreeze should really be called "permanent coolant" because it raises the boiling point, etc. Also wasn't sure if I remembered something about it preventing corrosion, so thank you for confirming that. Even though I've been topping it off with just water, the coolant I drained today before doing the head gasket still had an obvious red tint so it was just diluted, not actually 100% water. I don't plan on continuing with water-only, it's just that I didn't want to dump more antifreeze into it when I knew it was leaking. It only ran warm once (halfway up the temp guage), nowhere near hot, and that was after the fog started so I doubt it was due to temperature, unless maybe the winter temperature and/or not letting her warm up long enough before taking off to work in the mornings.

Everything was properly torqued when I started disassembly (checked breakaway with torque wrench at 27ftlbs for head bolts) and she didn't fog at all after replacing the gasket.

Only a very small amount of distortion is allowable according to the manual but if it is mated to another distortion at the opposite surface. The gasket will not hold. If memory serves .020 is max. Might be even less. Joedrum has just installed copper gaskets on his. Hopefully this will last much longer than the composite gaskets.

id have to disagee some ...that gasket in picture shows how these goo head gaskets break down in the cooling system jackets between the 2 cylinders ..water or antifreeze seems to break these gaskets down ...once the goo practically gone it could blow from a back fire or just running regularly...the gasket show severe material loss and id say the gasket it the biggest problem ..the other problem is ..the cooling system run this motor way to hot when set right ....for the crummy gaskets not to fail eventually ..if you do a lot of stop and go traffic riding ...the gaskets ar going to take a beating from heat too ...there is heat damage on the gasket plain and simple ...id just replace at chect that the cooling system is operating up tp par ..or go step further and try to mod it to run cooler ...manual fan switch for stop and go traffic just runs the fan all the time till your out of traffic and other things can be done to ..flush the radiator im sure there trash from the gaskets in it ..i dont think its got anything to do with poor prep ..but prep work is always important also ..

im doing both my head gaskets now and using solid copper gaskets cause im sick of goo gasket crap out there for these bikes ....honda gaskets are no better than other goo gaskets...good luck

[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=188794#p188794:qv25sk31 said:

slabghost » 6 minutes ago[/url]":qv25sk31]
Only a very small amount of distortion is allowable according to the manual but if it is mated to another distortion at the opposite surface. The gasket will not hold. If memory serves .020 is max. Might be even less. Joedrum has just installed copper gaskets on his. Hopefully this will last much longer than the composite gaskets.

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Well since this is the second time the left side has started fogging, i'm guessing it will be a recurring problem. Luckily the hardest part about pulling the head is getting the exhaust back onto the studs, so if I have to replace the gasket every year or two to keep her running i'll gladly put up with it. I should order a few more spares, though.

Also I seem to remember someone telling me that since I was swapping in 1977-1979 cams I should go ahead and swap in 1977-1979 heads, but I didn't. Maybe I'll order a replacement '82 head to try next time she starts fogging. Maybe I'll order some 77-79 heads. Probably both, just in case.

joedrum":qv25sk31 said:

id have to disagee some ...that gasket in picture shows how these goo head gaskets break down in the cooling system jackets between the 2 cylinders ..water or antifreeze seems to break these gaskets down ...once the goo practically gone it could blow from a back fire or just running regularly...the gasket show severe material loss and id say the gasket it the biggest problem ..the other problem is ..the cooling system run this motor way to hot when set right ....for the crummy gaskets not to fail eventually ..if you do a lot of stop and go traffic riding ...the gaskets ar going to take a beating from heat too ...there is heat damage on the gasket plain and simple ...id just replace at chect that the cooling system is operating up tp par ..or go step further and try to mod it to run cooler ...manual fan switch for stop and go traffic just runs the fan all the time till your out of traffic and other things can be done to ..flush the radiator im sure there trash from the gaskets in it ..i dont think its got anything to do with poor prep ..but prep work is always important also ..

im doing both my head gaskets now and using solid copper gaskets cause im sick of goo gasket crap out there for these bikes ....honda gaskets are no better than other goo gaskets...good luck

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I like the manual fan switch idea. I'll do that. I live in town and most of my driving is around 45mph rather than long uninterrupted periods on the highway. Are there any replacement thermostats that would help with this? A quick google about copper head gaskets (Randakk's blog) tells me I'd need machine work done to the heads and/or block for that to work, and that's a little outside my range.

That gasket definately looks like it broke-down and came apart. Those bits may be in the water jacket/cooling system now and need to be flushed out.

The "backfire" you mention, and the way it came on was actually an "after-fire" meaning an explosion of the hot unburned gas took place in the exhaust. I too highly doubt this damaged the head gasket. Engine "pinging" or "knock" can certainly blow a head gasket since that is a violent explosion rather than a burn that creates very high uncontrolled pressures in the cylinder. You didn't mention any of that happening though.

well no need to buy heads ...if the cams were working good ..there basically the same heads ....

ok ill list what ive done to run cooler
i use a resrictor plate instead of a thermostat ...so radiator constantly flows ...with enough restriction so coolant stays in radiator long enough

i got rid of the heat shield in front of the carbs so air flow is better

and need to make sure the thermo switch for fan to come on works proper or buy one new ..i think there a car one that works ..someone might post that ..and of course manual switch requires wiring so both modes work ..

to me it seems oldwing run better cooler ..my bike does ..but its highly modified and may not reflect stock motor ways

yes randakks has had that posted about copper gaskets a long time ...his leaked ..when he did it ..i know of another one that dosnt leak ...i did do work to block and heads and havnt tried it yet so im hoping it will ..i did all the work by hand ...will see in next day or two if mine works with copper gaskets ...

You do NOT need to have machine work done. You DO have to make both surfaces dead flat. But this can be done by hand. Randaak also said his copper gaskets leaked so I expect he did a thing or two wrong. If it's running well I would continue using the heads and cams you have.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that copper head gaskets won't need any additional machining or prep work until more guys have successfully done this.
So far all we know of is Eric here on the forum. I don't know of any other Goldwings running copper gaskets.

[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=188802#p188802:16exg6pw said:

dan filipi » 7 minutes ago[/url]":16exg6pw]
You didn't mention any of that happening though.

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No, none of that. She was still running fairly smoothly when she started fogging. I'm sorry to say that my overloaded work schedule made me delay replacing the gasket for a couple of weeks and I could hear a different pitch to the way she was running which I attributed to weak fire in the left side cylinders due to water pulled in on the intake stroke. Aside from the coolant level gradually dropping, that's really been the only symptom. She's been purring like a kitten since I bought that Carbtune Pro, and the only thing I can even think of that might have caused damage was the afterfire. Perhaps it was just the gasket itself. I don't know how old the first one I replaced was, since it was in when I bought the bike, but it was deteriorated far further than this one. The one I put in before was OEM, the one I put in today wasn't.

joedrum":16exg6pw said:

ok ill list what ive done to run cooler

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I'm guessing the restrictor plate is just a flat plate shaped to the inside of the thermostat housing with one or more holes? How many holes and of what size would be proper?
I'll pull the heat shield and add the manual fan switch tomorrow. The automatic switch does seem to be functioning, but ...
The fan switch is just a regular switch that's operated by the temperature sensor, right? Not run through the sensor itself?
Couldn't I just parallel wire a fused 12v hot to the fan lead so that the automatic switch could still engage the fan even when the manual switch is off? Or would that backfeed the load side of the temperature sensor?

slabghost":16exg6pw said:

You do NOT need to have machine work done. You DO have to make both surfaces dead flat. But this can be done by hand. Randaak also said his copper gaskets leaked so I expect he did a thing or two wrong. If it's running well I would continue using the heads and cams you have.

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That's good to hear. Not that he did something wrong, but that I could get copper gaskets to work without machining my block for o rings. I presume there's more to this than just sanding the head and using the composite gasket as a template on a sheet of copper? I'll keep an eye on how yours turns out (good luck!) for when/if the gasket I put in today fails.

dan filipi":16exg6pw said:

I wouldn't be so quick to say that copper head gaskets won't need any additional machining or prep work until more guys have successfully done this.
So far all we know of is Eric here on the forum. I don't know of any other Goldwings running copper gaskets.

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I (hopefully) won't be needing a new gasket for a while, and this isn't the kind of thing I'd take my timing belts loose for until I have an actual problem, so hopefully by the time I need one again we'll have more info. I *definitely* don't want to be needlessly trying out any untested techniques on my only transportation. I'll wait until those who know far more than me (that's you guys) confirm that it's a good idea.

I replace both head gaskets about 4k miles ago. Had both heads surfaced, in my opinion that is the only way to get a perfect surface. Also after installation road for about a half hour, came home and re torqued the head bolts, I know that is extra work, but it insured the heads were torqued properly. I also ran a thread chaser down each head bolt hold before installing the heads. During my career I installed hundreds of heads on various engines and only had a few premature failures. Sometimes a little extra work pays off in the long run.

[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=188823#p188823:38008man said:

OldWrench » 8 minutes ago[/url]":38008man]
I replace both head gaskets about 4k miles ago. Had both heads surfaced, in my opinion that is the only way to get a perfect surface. Also after installation road for about a half hour, came home and re torqued the head bolts, I know that is extra work, but it insured the heads were torqued properly. I also ran a thread chaser down each head bolt hold before installing the heads. During my career I installed hundreds of heads on various engines and only had a few premature failures. Sometimes a little extra work pays off in the long run.

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I tend to agree. I don't have a lot of faith in hand filing a head flat though better than doing nothing to flatten it. Followed up with sandpaper on a true flat surface then maybe.

It's the little things that make all the difference OldWrench! :good:

everything is variable ...a person like me whos hands are very smart ..i find it it hard to ever come across a machine that dose better than me ...so theres never a statement that fits all ...ive done lots of of oldwings motor and never used a machine shop...its not to say that everyone should do this ...anytime i do something i always stress how the hands have to be smart and not work against you ...this is actually very hard to do nowdays as people have gotten away from this kind of talent ...

im in the middle of copper gaskets right now ..i did everything by hand ..im just as worried as i can be on the success of it all ...in the end i didnt go with glass smooth surface and i had it ..i decided i wanted a place for the coppercoat sealant to go ...and rough it up a bit ..it remains to be seen yet how this comes out ..so far its seems the tightening of the bolts is solid ..totally different feel than goo gaskets...i also cleaned the head bolt holes very well ...the clean threads give super amount of surface area to clamp with and is most important part of being stable clamping ....i did nothing to the copper gasket itself ...as i dont like doing things that i see actually compromises the material like burning it with fire ..may have to but im trying this first ...my fingers are crossed ...