New starter, new solenoid, worked at first now won't turn over...bench test on starter OK....wtf?

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chrisbags

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I've been working on this one awhile now...need a little input from y'all please...

1981 GL1100 Interstate - I'm the third owner, picked it up from the 2nd in August, he had the motor rebuilt in May 2012 - here's the scoop on what happened since the starter quit originally...

So I got a starter and put it in. It worked fine when I first installed it last night but today it got very sluggish and then quit. I pulled it and made sure it was fitted properly, and that the gear was properly seated in the starter chain, etc. It was fine from that perspective, the solenoid was working (tested with the multimeter) and the voltage was right. Then I noticed that the starter was trying to turn, but there is something stopping it from doing so, like the chain is bound up or something inside the motor…So I pulled the starter again and felt around in the housing, down at the bottom there were a couple of metal fragments, almost like something old broke or something. Not a pile of metal or big chunks, but about the size of the head of a pin and a bit larger. Maybe 3 or 4 of them. A very experienced friend of mine who had his motor rebuilt has reported finding crumbs of metal in his rebuilt engine, so he's not convinced it's directly related, but anyway...

So I put it back together and it’s all fitting right, etc. but it’s not turning. Drawing a lot of power but not able to turn. Since I know the motor is working it’s gotta be something else, and I’m afraid of what that might be….

What I’ve read seems to indicate that I may have to have the motor pulled to get in there, which looks pretty likely if that’s what needs to be done, I can’t see any other way to do it – before I suck it up and go spend more than half of what I paid for the thing in labor I figured I’d ask if you had any perspective – no problem if not. I can still ride it if I push start it so I guess that’s something at least, unless that’s just a bad idea.

Anyway, that’s the latest, it’s running great even with the latest issue, once I start it it isn’t making any strange noises or vibrations or behaving badly in any way.

Hope you get some saddle time this weekend, and take care, ride safe.

Update...yesterday:

Well, I've put in a new solenoid, no dice. Swapped the starter, no dice. When I had the starter out I tried a test my neighbor told me about - he rides bmws. I tried to turn the chain by hand by pulling on it with pliers. Couldn't budge it. He came by and said that it may be a bad starter clutch gear or bushings, which after looking at the manual must be accessed by taking the rear cover off the motor.

Not sure what I should do with it, I'm going to keep push starting it for now - and I'll look into finding a way to keep looking at it.

The voltage numbers are all correct when I test the battery, the solenoid, and the starter lead. I know from the bench test the starter works, the old one does not. I put the new one back in.

Maybe I can find a way to try to free the chain up without all that rigamarole, ill keep at it. Thanks again,

Chris
:cheeky:
 
hmmmmm this kinda rare but as the story gose it sounds plausable ...the motor rebuilt ....something screwed up in starter clutch when put together ...tore up one starter already now is locked up ...with new starter installed ....seems like the deal to me ...id say its time to pull the motor ....its great it runs well ...but this may end if any metal gets caught in something else and dose something to motor ...pulling the motor is not all that bad ....once out its just the rear cover that has got to come off to see whats up with the strarter clutch ...if you have machanical skills ...i think there enough help on the forum to get you through it ....might have to be some ebay or parts bike part that needs to be bought to fix this ...but it also sounds as if the bike is worth it .... :mrgreen:
 
Sounds bad - did I read it correctly that you swapped starters and the problem remained? The metal fragments found are disconcerting to be sure, too bad you are not closer I sell 1100 motors for two hundred bucks. On the bright side this will be a great time to change the stator.
 
If it is hydrolocking you should see a spray of fuel out one of the plug holes.

The easiest fix is turn the gas off when parked but for some reason gas is getting past one of the floats.
 
So just pull the plugs leave the kill switch at stop position with the key on and while in neutral hit the start button?

Sounds like something even a left handed wanna be mechanic like me can do. Would that bind up the starter chain/ clutch? The starter was trying to twist itself free it's trying to turn so hard.

Thanks guys - makes sense to me since it worked and then stopped when I first installed the new solenoid and starter.
 
Y'all are a bunch of geniuses! I pulled out the spark plugs and the starter spun and turns the motor over, I can feel the air puffing out with the pistons. My battery is run down a lot after 2 days of trying to figure this out, and I'm recharging it now, it was slowing down big time.

So I shut the petcock and am wondering, what now? How do I get the fuel out of the cylinders and should I get it started with the gas shut off and let it stall out so I know it's all out?

Do I need to use seafoam or one of those?

If this actually works, then the real question is, how hard will it be to figure out the proper fix?
 
You need to turn the gas on and let it set with the plugs out for about an hour then crank it with
the switch off and watch the plug holes and see which one is causing the hydrolock
and that will tell you which carb is at fault either way rebuild them all at the same time
or just fix the one.
 
Hydrolock is simply caused by gas leaking into the engine. More than likely, the floats are not adjusted correctly in the carbs or the float needles are dirty and not sealing when they are closed. I am a little busy here at home, but I would be glad to take a ride down to your place and give you a hand! Plus, if there is any thing wrong with your starter clutch, I have a spare'81 engine with some good parts!

If you wanted to take a ride this way, I have all of the tools to work on your bike too!
 
with your post about at first it still didnt go after the plugs were taken out ...but then did on second post tells me something was caught in the starter clutch...hudro lock would have been cleared as soon as plugs were out and you would have noticed the fuel shooting out the plug hole where it was locked up at period ...it would not have stayed stuck after plugs were out ....im sure you need to investigate what broken in the rear cover ....or you stand a chance that it well get caught in something again ...its a gamble ...you might be okay like it is ...or it can go the other way ...under no ciecumstances do you want to use rubber eating seafoam at all in my opinion...from what you have said it wasnt hydra locked to begin with in my opinion ...the plugs out gave the starter enough torque to clear the caught up starter chain clutch is all ....
 
Hey joe,

Not sure if I misspoke, but as soon as I pulled the plugs it turned over.

I waited half an hour and put the plugs back in and it started right up. I shut off the petcock and ran it at idle till it ran out of gas. Turned the gas back on and it started right up.

I have the plugs back out and I'm turning the gas back on, I'll let it sit an hour as suggested and see what happens/ which cylinder it is.

I agree though I do need to figure out that starter clutch, I'm no master mechanic so I'm not saying I know definitively what it is, all I know is that when I took the plugs out it turned right away, when I put them back in and hit the button it turned over and ran till the gas in the fuel line ran out.

Gerry I would love to take you up on your offer, think about when you'd have time, I'll pm you.
 
It might not be anything wrong with the carbs or floats. A full tank of gas is heavy and will push past floats if the fuel valve is left on. The metal pieces might be from break in of the motor rebuild. I'd change the oil and install a magnet on the oil drain plug.
 
Well I'm not saying you're wrong bud, my battery was too run down to do a second test so it's out on the charger. Once it's topped up ill put em back in and try again. With the plugs out it turns fine with the low battery. When I put them in it seems like the battery isn't putting out enough juice to turn over if I've left the gas on. I'm stl kinda scratching my head.
 
My 80 hydrolocks occasionally. When I forget to turn off the gas. Floats are set right and needle valves do shut. Smell the oil. If it smells of gas you really should change the oil before starting it.
 
OK, here's the update - It will start once or twice, but then stops cranking. I finally looked at the battery and I have a feeling it just isn't holding enough charge to crank it, especially if there is a little hydrolock going on. Even when I pull the plugs and spin the cylinders with the starter it just sounds like a battery that isn't holding enough charge anymore.

Given that no other problems have cropped up and the fact that when I put it on the tender after every two or three cranks it has to recharge about an hour to get back to green, and it's reading a bit low even at "full" charge on the tender (it reads 12V but it's not holding it once I crank it off the charger) I think the symptoms plus the fact I have no clue how old the battery is makes that a suspect - It sure doesn't look new.

So, what recommendations for a good battery do you all have? I don't want to put a 300 dollar model like some of the ones I've found in it - that's almost half what I paid for the bike, so under 100 is good, unless y'all think you absolutely must have one of those, then I'll think about it since you've never steered me wrong before :)

I have even disconnected it to recharge it the past two go-rounds and it acts exactly the same, so I think that eliminates a variable of some sort, of course I have no clue what that would be...

Anyway, THANK YOU for all the help this weekend guys, I did get her out for an hour earlier to hit the cigar store and she ran just fine.
 
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