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 Post subject: Battery Kill Switch
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#1  Unread postPosted: May 17th, 2017, 11:54 am

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I want to add a battery kill switch for emergency purposes, and would like your input on how I plan to do it.

First, the reason:
A few days ago I left work headed for home, and stopped for gas after riding for about 20 minutes. When I hit the kill switch to shut her off, it immediately started cranking by itself. I turned the kill switch back on and the bike started up. I turned the key off, and again it started cranking. The starter solenoid was stuck, presumably ever since I'd started up, and the starter motor had been spinning wide open the entire 20 minutes. The starter solenoid was blistering hot (literally) and before I could get the battery negative disconnected the starter motor crapped out. After a push-start and a couple of spare parts (I LOVE SPARE PARTS) she's running fine again, but I thought I'd overreact anyway.

THE PLAN:
I'm going to put a kill switch on the small 12v wire that leads to the starter button, and run a couple of extra wires so I have separate indicator LED on the console for the 12v from the starter button to the starter solenoid and for the 12v from the solenoid to the starter motor. This is because I'm guessing the initial failure was the starter button failing to disengage, holding the solenoid open until it locked up. If I see the right LED light up, I can kill the power to the starter button by a small kill switch. If I see the left LED light up, I can kill the battery with the large battery kill switch. I got this battery kill switch:
Attachment:
battery kill switch.jpeg

and a couple of battery connection cables (4ga) with eyelet ends from an auto parts store.
I was thinking the ground strap connection on the left side of the frame would be the best place to put it, as there's not really room in the left side cover, and I'm guessing that lengthening the hot wire to the starter would be a worse idea than lengthening the battery ground strap. Or, alternately, putting it up near the air cleaner cover but I'm not sure how much length would be too much.

THE QUESTIONS:
What size wire is the factory ground strap?
How bad of an idea would it be to lengthen the ground strap by 24" of 4ga?
Should I get a shorter and/or thicker wire?
Do I need to get a solid bus plate (3-4") to go straight from the kill switch to the ground point?
Is there a better kill switch I should be looking for?
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 Post subject: Re: Battery Kill Switch
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#2  Unread postPosted: May 17th, 2017, 2:23 pm

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I think the best place for a kill switch would be the ground or hot coming off the battery or after the solenoid to the starter, the reason why is the metal contacts inside the solenoid fuse together and no other wire but the big hot or big negative will stop the starter.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Kill Switch
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#3  Unread postPosted: May 17th, 2017, 2:44 pm

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I like the idea of a main cutoff switch. It's something wacky I would do. :mrgreen:

Maybe this can fit in the fairing?
http://www.jegs.com/i/JOES-Racing-Produ ... oC_x7w_wcB
Attachment:
514-46200 (1).jpg


I'd run a new #4 to the engine block ground and to the battery. That effectively cuts all power flow to all devices including the starter. Auto stores sell pre made #4 cables with crimped eyelets already on them.
With a main cutoff like this there wouldn't be any need for a kill switch on the small wires powering the solenoid. I would however replace the stock solenoid with a new Honda part or a new Ford style solenoid.
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 Post subject: Re: Battery Kill Switch
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#4  Unread postPosted: May 17th, 2017, 4:27 pm

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Maybe this can fit in the fairing?

I don't run a fairing, Abigail's naked except for the saddlebags which are large ammo cans. The reason for still having the kill switch on the small wire going to the starter button is that if I see the wire from the starter button to the solenoid come hot while I'm going down the road then I can just kill the starter button without shutting off the bike.
Also I found a cool little toggle switch with a skull on it with red LED eyes and I have to use it for SOMETHING.

If lengthening the wire isn't going to cause problems with the starter/reg-ret/stator/whatever then I'll probably put the kill somewhere near the fuse block/air intake so I don't accidentally hit it with my knee or something. I already have the 4ga battery wires, I just wanted to confer with the experts first. I'm not going to actually put it in until this weekend, planning depends partially on how much length I can safely add to the ground strap and finding/fabricating just the right mounting brackets.

replace the stock solenoid with a new Honda part or Ford style

That sounds like a good idea. I've had enough solenoid problems to cause me to carry a spare solenoid and starter motor everywhere I go. It seems like the repacement solenoids I've been getting are intended to be disposable.
I would be very grateful if you could link me to the part(s) that you recommend.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Kill Switch
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#5  Unread postPosted: May 17th, 2017, 5:14 pm

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http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/198 ... 9#sch35038
#9 is the OEM start solenoid assembly.

Something like this Ford starter solenoid is what I used...
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf- ... oCd5Xw_wcB

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Kill Switch
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#6  Unread postPosted: May 17th, 2017, 6:04 pm

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http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/198 ... 9#sch35038
#9 is the OEM start solenoid assembly.

Something like this Ford starter solenoid is what I used...
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf- ... oCd5Xw_wcB

Thank you, just ordered one of the Ford type.
I bookmarked the page for the Honda OEM starter, but that price is a bit steep. Even with having them go out entirely too often, all of the solenoids I've bought so far barely add up to the price of that one. Also given the possibility that the starter button is what's been killing them rather than just product failure, I'd hate to spend that much just to have it die the same way. The small kill switch to the starter button *should* prevent that from happening, but still that's a lot of money for a solenoid and I'm already well outside of the "100% OEM restore" ballpark even before this battery kill switch mod.

Sure, the Ford-style means re-working the wiring harness connection to the solenoid, but it's half-melted now anyway, so....
How did you rework your main fuse connection? Keep a regular GL1100 solenoid and re-route just the solenoid trigger wire and battery line or did you rework the whole thing?

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Kill Switch
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#7  Unread postPosted: May 17th, 2017, 7:31 pm

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Had a look at Ford solenoid and thought about the wiring. The yellow/red striped wire from the starter switch and the green/red striped wire going to ground through the clutch diode (if you have one) hook up to the two smaller connections. You can hook the charging wire from the reg/rect to the same post as the one from the battery. The red wire out to the ignition switch can be connected there as well with a 30 amp in line fuse to the ignition switch. Should work just fine. Having experience with boat wiring and the ABYC (American Boat & Yacht Council) recommendations for wires on a single terminal, recommend only three wires plus battery cable be connected on the same post.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Kill Switch
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#8  Unread postPosted: May 17th, 2017, 8:56 pm

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The Ford solenoid is a pretty bulletproof unit. Whatever you do, don't put one of those cheap, crap Chinese solenoids in there. I had one of those fail on me and I almost killed myself getting the hot wire pulled off of that thing before my starter melted down.

But I'm with the other guys here. If you're going to go to the trouble of putting a Killswitch in, you might as well make it a main kill. If that solenoid load side fails, nothing will stop your starter but a break in that high current circuit. Somebody mentioned the battery ground side. That's where I would go. You don't have to worry about insulating the exposed metal on the contacts and it will kill that sucker deader than doornail no matter what the problem is.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Kill Switch
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#9  Unread postPosted: May 18th, 2017, 4:26 am

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If the starter button got stuck and that is what potentially caused your problem in the first place, I would be taking that unit apart and cleaning up those contacts and make sure that button pops in and out real nice and easy. :yes:

The kill switch is a good idea and I agree it should be on the main battery wire, not the smaller wires. There is not much wiring on the 1100 Standard in the first place. Using quality replacement components is a must!

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Kill Switch
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#10  Unread postPosted: May 18th, 2017, 9:55 am

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If the starter button got stuck and that is what potentially caused your problem in the first place, I would be taking that unit apart and cleaning up those contacts and make sure that button pops in and out real nice and easy. :yes:
Using quality replacement components is a must!


Exactly! :yes:

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Kill Switch
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#11  Unread postPosted: May 18th, 2017, 2:30 pm

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If the starter button got stuck and that is what potentially caused your problem in the first place, I would be taking that unit apart and cleaning up those contacts and make sure that button pops in and out real nice

I've never noticed any sticking or resistance in the button itself. I've never taken it apart, though, so I don't know whether or not it's possible for the connection to remain after the button pops back out. Honestly I think it was more likely just a crap solenoid. But as an old friend used to say, "I don't want to THINK, I want to KNOW." so I'm adding the LED lights as a diagnostic tool. If the starter ever gets unwanted voltage again, I'll be able to see whether it's the whole ignition circuit or just the line from the solenoid to the starter.

Of course the fact that I'm upgrading to a (hopefully) much more reliable solenoid means that if I'm right about the problem only being the solenoid then the LEDs, the small kill switch going to the starter button, and the main battery kill switch will all be unnecessary precautions, but it's better to err on the side of caution.
Multiple redundant safeties = peace of mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Kill Switch
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#12  Unread postPosted: May 21st, 2017, 11:13 am

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Found the culprit. The Ford-style solenoid came in so I went to pull out the disposable chinese solenoid to look at mounting options. When I firmly grasped the solenoid to remove it, the engine turned over for a second. When I unwound the tape on the wiring harness connection for the solenoid I found a badly pinched spot on the red with lots of copper showing and a small but adequate nick in the solenoid trigger wire. I taped it over for now because I still have to figure out how I'm going to fit this Ford-style solenoid in that little space. Also the posts on the Ford-type are larger than the eyelets on my battery and starter motor leads, so I need to get some larger crimp-on eyelets. I did get the battery kill switch wired in and sort-of-mounted. Also finished fabricating the mounts for my starter-button kill switch and starter monitor LEDs but got rained out so they aren't actually wired in yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Kill Switch
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#13  Unread postPosted: May 21st, 2017, 11:28 am

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Dang. So, we can't blame the disposable Chinese solenoid. Yet. I'd recommend engineering that Ford unit into that small space.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Kill Switch
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You may be able to use a stepped drill bit to enlarge the eyelets on the crimps. Just go slow and support it well while drilling. I have done this many times and only ruined a few! :doh:

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Kill Switch
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#15  Unread postPosted: May 25th, 2017, 1:31 pm

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https://youtu.be/tYYHEmBh7Yw

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