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 Post subject: High RPM miss
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#1  Unread postPosted: May 25th, 2018, 8:00 am

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Hello fellow Wingers. I have a 1980 1100i. I got it a couple of months ago. It starts, idles, revs clean to 5500 rpm, shifts, brakes and generally runs well. 27,000 miles on the clock. However when running hard through the gears it has a miss right at 5500 rpm.

I checked the fuel flow from the petcock and installed a new Napa fuel filter. I pulled the carbs and checked the float heights. They were right on at 15.5mm. Jets and related bits were removed and checked for blockage of the tiny side holes, all clean. Float needles and seats sealing well, not leaky. Mixture screws were set to 3.5 turns out. I reset them to 2.25 turns out. The slides on the top move clean and smooth up and down.

I put the carbs back on and did a carb sync. I have the Twinmax carb sync tool. Nothing changed, I still have the same miss.

I then went after the spark. I removed the coils and wires. One coil ohm tested bad, one tested good. I ordered a set of Caltric (?) coils off Amazon. They came with new wires. I am not running a radio or intercom so I removed the 5k ohm resister in the plug caps. I had some thick solid copper wire and cut pieces the same length as the small 5k ohm resisters. I put the wire pieces in place of the resisters. I then confirmed continuity through the wires and caps. The plugs are new NGKs.

I then took it for a test ride expecting no miss considering it had a bad coil and now has 2 new coils and non-resister caps. No luck, still a miss at 5500 rpm.

I then read about the vacuum ignition advance. I pulled the hose off carb #3 and applied vacuum to the hose (to the advance). I didn't hold the vacuum forever but it took a very long time for the needle to move a small amount. That looks like pretty good vacuum, right? Well, I tried running without that vacuum line attached. I capped the nipple on carb #3. Right from the start it missed bad and ran terrible. I pulled over and re-attached the vacuum advance hose to carb #3. It then ran good but with the original problem (5500 rpm miss).

Air filter is a new Emgo. The exhaust is not collapsed. Non-ethanol (not old) gas.

I'm stumped fellas. Can anybody help?

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 Post subject: Re: High RPM miss
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#2  Unread postPosted: May 25th, 2018, 11:32 am

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Three things to check or do. First mixture screws should not all be the same. Adjust procedure is in the book. I do not use the idle drop. Second mechanical advance may be rusted and not functioning. Third Fuel pump may be getting too weak to flow enough supply for the higher rpm.

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 Post subject: Re: High RPM miss
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#3  Unread postPosted: May 25th, 2018, 12:45 pm

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I am leaning toward the mechanical advance being stuck. My 81 revs to 8k on pretty much every ride I take on it. When the mechanical advance is stuck then your base timing can be set incorrectly.

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 Post subject: Re: High RPM miss
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#4  Unread postPosted: May 25th, 2018, 4:17 pm

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Thanks guys. Can I get to the mechanical advance without taking half the world apart? This really feels electrical to me.

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 Post subject: Re: High RPM miss
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#5  Unread postPosted: May 25th, 2018, 4:38 pm

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Perhaps the voltage supply to the coils is not quite up to snuff. Several here have wired the coils with a relay, direct from the battery, to eliminate the ignition switch causing problems. Just a thought. :yes:

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 Post subject: Re: High RPM miss
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#6  Unread postPosted: May 25th, 2018, 5:41 pm

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Getting to the advance is possible but not easy.

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 Post subject: Re: High RPM miss
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#7  Unread postPosted: May 26th, 2018, 8:44 am

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I'd still try a new hose before I started pulling all kinds of stuff, including possibly the motor, to get to the ignition.

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 Post subject: Re: High RPM miss
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#8  Unread postPosted: June 5th, 2018, 12:14 pm

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Well I checked the vacuum hose, good. I don't think the mixture screws being set the same (2.25 turns out) would cause a misfire at 5.5k.
I'll try running a hot to the coils first, sounds the easiest.

Do I use a standard 12v relay from the auto parts store? So hot from the battery to the 12v relay then to the hot wire that feeds 12v to the coils? I haven't ever run a relay so just 12v in then 12v out right?

Thanks fellas.

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 Post subject: Re: High RPM miss
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#9  Unread postPosted: June 6th, 2018, 4:32 pm

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The voltage at the black/white coil feed is down more than 1 volt from battery voltage. I cleaned up the stop/run switch on the bars. I cleaned up all the connectors and grounds and glass fuses. I didn't remove the ignition switch but I cleaned the connector from the switch to the harness with contact cleaner. After all that cleaning I still had the 1+ volt drop at the coils. 13v at the battery, 11.8v at the coils feed wire.

I initially thought the miss was electrical now I'm not too sure. I mean I found a bad coil and replaced both, new wires, removed the resisters in the caps. Still got the miss. I still plan to try the direct feed with a relay to the coils. But it looks like I'm dropping just 1.2 volts from the battery to the coils.

Do all the bikes in Classic Goldwing land have full battery voltage at the coils? If they do then it looks like my ignition switch is robbing too much voltage. If 1.2v +/- drop at the coil feed is typical then my miss is caused by something else.

Anybody feel like checking their battery volts and their coil feed volts?

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 Post subject: Re: High RPM miss
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#10  Unread postPosted: June 6th, 2018, 4:37 pm

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The voltage at the black/white coil feed is down more than 1 volt from battery voltage. I cleaned up the stop/run switch on the bars. I cleaned up all the connectors and grounds and glass fuses. I didn't remove the ignition switch but I cleaned the connector from the switch to the harness with contact cleaner. After all that cleaning I still had the 1+ volt drop at the coils. 13v at the battery, 11.8v at the coils feed wire.

I initially thought the miss was electrical now I'm not too sure. I mean I found a bad coil and replaced both, new wires, removed the resisters in the caps. Still got the miss. I still plan to try the direct feed with a relay to the coils. But it looks like I'm dropping just 1.2 volts from the battery to the coils.

Do all the bikes in Classic Goldwing land have full battery voltage at the coils? If they do then it looks like my ignition switch is robbing too much voltage. If 1.2v +/- drop at the coil feed is typical then my miss is caused by something else.

Anybody feel like checking their battery volts and their coil feed volts?

That voltage drop is the reason for this suggestion. viewtopic.php?p=203023#p203023

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 Post subject: Re: High RPM miss
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#11  Unread postPosted: June 6th, 2018, 9:04 pm

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As I said, I do plan to try that. A few posts back I asked for a "how to" to hook up the relay, thinking someone here might have done it, seeing it was suggested. But if you want to keep it a secret and not help a brother out, so be it.

In my last post I was inquiring if a small voltage drop could cause the miss. And if a forum member was familiar with the typical voltage drop from the battery to the coil feed....if in fact any voltage drop is typical.

I'm a long time member of other (model) motorcycle boards and am only happy to help when someone runs into a problem that I'm familiar with...still hoping someone here has been down this "high RPM miss" road.

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 Post subject: Re: High RPM miss
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#12  Unread postPosted: June 6th, 2018, 10:46 pm

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As I said, I do plan to try that. A few posts back I asked for a "how to" to hook up the relay, thinking someone here might have done it, seeing it was suggested. But if you want to keep it a secret and not help a brother out, so be it.

In my last post I was inquiring if a small voltage drop could cause the miss. And if a forum member was familiar with the typical voltage drop from the battery to the coil feed....if in fact any voltage drop is typical.

I'm a long time member of other (model) motorcycle boards and am only happy to help when someone runs into a problem that I'm familiar with...still hoping someone here has been down this "high RPM miss" road.

There are many previous post here about installing relays and their wiring schematics. I honestly believe that you would do well to google a YouTube video about relay installs. I have just done one on a CB750 k6 but it may not help because I only took some pictures at the end

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 Post subject: Re: High RPM miss
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#13  Unread postPosted: June 7th, 2018, 5:51 am

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Does this help?

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 Post subject: Re: High RPM miss
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#14  Unread postPosted: June 8th, 2018, 4:36 am

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My thought... and this isn't coming from any particular flat-four incidence, but rather, just an engine in general thing... is that you might have one valve spring that's just a wee bit weak, and a little crud on a stem, such that it's not closing up quite soon enough...

I dunno these engines like I know my CX-D... can the valve lash be opened up a bit to 'earlier' the on-seat time for a short term test? If so, giving it about twice as much valve lash, one valve at a time, then spinning it above the miss point, MIGHT give you an audible indication of which valve, which spring...

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 Post subject: Re: High RPM miss
Share Post: Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+Share on MySpace  Post Number:#15  Unread postPosted: June 10th, 2018, 12:18 pm

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Well I tried the hot w/relay to the coils. Positioned it where the radio face was. Didn't solve the miss. This has got me stumped. I think I'll check the valve clearances then sync the carbs next. I'll get this sooner or later. Wish me luck.
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