83 interstate head gasket

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kerryb

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I'm going to be putting new head gaskets on my new-to-me 83 interstate. It's blowing a little whitish smoke from the left side exhaust. I'm looking for opinions on whether it would be better to replace other parts while I'm in there or remember "if it aint broke, don't fix it". 83 interstate, 69k miles, good service history, compression test revealed 170 lbs +/- 2lbs. Purchased from an estate and I think it sat for awhile because it needs brake seals.
So...while the heads are off should I do valve stem seals, lap the valves, or just do gaskets and don't break anything else. ( I have done this work before)
 
69K miles, I would hesitate to pull the head unless you are sure it is a head gasket leak. 170 lb compression test is pretty good for a blown head gasket. Are you sure the white smoke is water and not gas/oil? (Left side leak is often gas from leaking float.)
 
No, I'm not positive its a head gasket leak. Ran the engine on the lift till the fan cycled on/off a few times. Coolant was down a little in the reservoir before that so I filled it. After cooling down, the coolant reservoir had dropped about 1/2". I repeated this test and coolant level didn't drop again. There was a fuel leak from carb number 4, I was hoping it is just a bowl gasket.
 
A bike that sat will need a serious carb cleaning. It is very common for just enough gas to leak to make it hard to start or blow white smoke for a while.

With a head gasket leak, you would see the white smoke after the engine is heated up (actually water vapor from evaporating coolant).

Performing a compression test should show less compression on the side the gasket is leaking (if actually failed) because a gasket failure will not seal a cylinder.

After sitting so long, it is not uncommon for the coolant to drop initially after heating and cooling. The water pump seal dries out and can drip ever so little. Enough to drop the level in the radiator over time. If the expansion tank stays full now then I would rule out coolant leak via head gasket failure.
 
Cool, you just saved me a bunch of time & money. I still need to pop the cover off to check the water pump, reseal a few brakes, and replace the front wheel bearings because I feel just a little radial movement when I pull on them.
I had a previous '83 with head gasket issues, but it had 120k miles, blew smoke from both pipes, and ran the reservoir dry on two occasions. Big job, but worked out well.
 
Still questioning the head gasket... and the the stakes are high. I'm prepping this bike to take to my winter place which doesn't have my workshop or a lift table to ease repairs.
Evidence that the head gasket is bad... when I took the shelter off the reservoir tank is empty! Now granted, I discovered this after draining the coolant, but I thought the the reservoir only provided coolant on suction from the cooling system. Will it drain with a working radiator cap in place on a cold engine. I haven't measured the amount of coolant that came out, but it doesn't look like enough to refill the system and the reservoir too. But I don't know how much is still in the engine.
The other evidence is also disconcerting. I figured if the coolant is drained (mostly) there wouldn't be any to cause white smoke, so I ran the engine ( don't know the age of the gas but I suspect it was treated) the engine fired up easily but required three starts with choke to stay running ( in a 66 degree room). The smoke started right away and continued steady for three minutes of running. My nose isn't so great but it smelled more like gas than sweet. I probably didn't run it long enough to make steam.

So what do you suggest, clean the carbs first ( pretty expensive) or just go ahead and do the head gaskets now, while it's easier and clean the carbs if the problem isn't fixed. Carb job isn't happered by lack of workshop so much.
 
Well, having to run using the choke clearly points to clogged carb jets (common). White smoke with no coolant is unburned gas. The choke is creating a rich condition that will pull gas beyond the idle circuit. But, it is very likely the float needle tips are dirty and not sealing causing a lot of extra gas to flow. (Been there, done that).

1. Is your oil milky? That would point to a head gasket leak.
2. After filling the reservoir and running the engine until hot, let the engine cool overnight.
3. Next day, see if the reservoir dropped again, but don't start the engine. (If the reservoir went down overnight, coolant went somewhere.)
4. Pull the plugs, spin the engine and see if any liquid comes out (gas or coolant).
 
Ok, I'll see what I can do. A little clarification, the choke was only on for 5 seconds or less. The engine will idle nice after 30 seconds. There was a little gas dripping from carb #4. When I pulled the air cleaner after the bike didn't run for a week, there was a strong smell of gas from the intake manifold.
I have to put coolant back in it to do the run test, and hope for good enough weather to run it with the door open. We got 6" of snow two days ago.
 
Also, if you are low on coolant and the bike sat for a long time, the coolant could easily have dripped out a drop at a time over a period of time. Now that you are running the engine, you could easily have an air bubble in the radiator. The best way to clear something like that is to pull the radiator cap, top off the radiator and let the engine run until hot purging air. Technically, the expansion tank should do the same thing, but each time you run with an air bubble the coolant will drop.
 
I put it back together, put the coolant in, put fresh gas in the test tank, and fired it up. no smoke for the first minute, no choke required, ran smooth and revved easily. Smoke started after first minute, and would show a little more after throttle blips. During this the engine sounds great! , very smooth with no stumbling.
I think there may be an air bubble in there somewhere, and I didn't run it long enough to bring the fan on. After it cools( tomorrow) I'll pull the radiator cap, check the levels, fill the radiator while it's coming up to temp and do the test again ( properly hopefully)
Questions: do I need to run it till the fan comes on, or just untill the radiator is warm (thermostat would be open)?
 
The fan comes on separately from the thermostat opening. You need to be sure the thermostat opened to get rid of the air. Unlike a car radiator, you may not see the coolant flow in the radiator. It usually just starts to show hot water vapor and may drop a bit. It doesn't take much to get the air bubbles out once hot. If the fan comes on, it is usually a sign that the thermostat should also have opened. Of course you can check the thermostat wit a thermal gun and watch it change temp when it opens.
 
Finally got the fluid levels to a point where I could trust the results. Oil looks like new, with no milky-ness, coolant looks perfect, cooling system filled correctly and checked with short run and overnight cool-down. small gas leak under carbs 2 & 4.
Ran the engine for 30 minutes while watching temperatures with infrared thermometer. Engine ran very well, thermostat and fan switch operated properly at their respective temperatures. Of note: the right side muffler is hotter than the left by 25-30 degrees f, could this be a sign of running rich on cyls 2&4? The smoke from the left side was there and steady, but hard to separate from the condensation because the exhaust was run outdoors through plastic pipes. After overnight cool-down, the coolant in the reserviour had dropped about 1/8" or more. This tells me I do indeed have a head gasket leak because the is no sign of leakage anywhere else.
I have ordered a top end gasket set, a Randakks carb kit (wow, there $ went way up!) New timing belts, #7733 radiator hose, and tires. Now the fun begins, tear it all apart and put it back together correctly in three weeks. I may need new, longer throttle cables. Is there an easy way to order them after I know what increase is needed to reach my taller bars?
Thanks for your patience and guidance.
 
If you're still concerned about the white smoke, you could get one of those inexpensive borescopes you connect to your cell phone. Take out the plugs when the engine is cold and take a peak in the cylinders. This is a pic of #2 cylinder:
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You can see a lot. If you do this, leave bike on side stand for the night, then centre stand if you have one before scoping.
 
I have one of those borescopes, find it difficult to see with most times. Assuming it worked, what would I hope to see? For example, if there is a lot of carbon it may indicate a poorly adjusted carb or a leaking float. That may cause the smoke I had. Or I might see a super-clean cylinder, which I would expect if the head gasket is leaking and the cylinder is getting steam-cleaned.
What I did find was a little carbon on the the plug ground tang (the part the spark jumps to) and when I pulled the carbs tonight there was a lot of wet stuff on the intake valve stem that I could see through thr intake port. That latter observation coincides with the noise I heard when pressurizing the cylinder to look for bubbles in the radiator. I could hear a hissing that was loudest with a tube to my ear close to the exhaust valve stem. Maybe the valve stem seals are failing?. When the engine is warmed up and running it sounds great! No clues to anything wrong.
Can you tell I enjoy trying to figure out how to make it better?!

Hopefully I'll learn a bunch from this one. Last time I did head gaskets I couldn't find the spot where it was leaking, the whole thing looked bad to measure :doh:
 
I'm going in... based on what I find in the first head, the other side may get done too. I have the gaskets, and all the other stuff is apart anyways.

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(Fixed picture orientations DF)
 
Well, it looks pretty good in there, I still don't know what a good or failed gasket looks like after you get them off! Based on this, I think I'll just do one side, it takes too long to get the head clean when it is probably still good for some time to come.

Thanks DF for fixing my pictures, when I use the iphone to upload they go sideways...probably because I didn't learn which way to hold the camera.
 

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The cylinders and head look pretty good. Check for a ridge at the top of the cylinder, should be slight or next to none. There is crud build up on the exhaust valves that can be cleaned, lapped and put back in if so inclined - help a bit on the compression side of things and valve adjustment I would think. Intake valves and seats are generally very clean and don't require lapping.
 
Hmmmm the one cylinder in head on the left doesn't look good to me ..seems bike has been running rich and there rust that making a appearance around the exhaust vavle you need to look hard at the old head gasket right thete to see if there a blow out that could be seen ..as I see it it possible head crack ..when the cam overlaps at the top of the stroke it can leak into the cylinder if crack is in exhaust runner or maybe there another reason for that rust

I've seen it before if motor shuts off with valve open it can look like it leaking from valve cause it is hmmmm ..
 
Well I cleaned off the old gasket but found no evidence of a leak, lapped the exhaust valves, they had carbon deposits as predicted. Intakes looked too good to touch. No appreciable wear on valve stems, put on new stem seals and buttoned it back up. I'm not going to do the other side now. Joe, I couldn't find any evidence of rust or cracks in the cylinder head.
So now I'm back to the myriad of other chores to get this bike roadable. Never did like drilling out the screw 8n the bottom of the fork slider, but pulled it off one more time!
 

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