1985 GL1200 Limited ECU Replacement/Upgrade - Part 2

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Rednaxs60

Rednaxs60

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Have finalized the Speeduino pinout, attached.

As a refresher, amazed at how this aftermarket ECU unit replaces a larger OEM ECU. Some of the design of the early OEM ECU is not duplicated today. The brains of the operation is the MEGA 2560 with a 16 MHz clock. It's 4" by 2":
Control Module.JPG
The interface board between the bike CFI system and this board is 10 cms by 10 cms:
Interface Board.JPG
Coming together.
 

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joedrum

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Hmmm my vettes have old ECU UNITS TO DEAL WITH ...I've got one vette running very good And strong ..what a nightmare to get it all setup good running wise ..but the ECU RUNS MANY OTHER THINGS...it's like it is possessed with all the things it can do it's not suppose to do ..lol
 
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Rednaxs60

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Thanks for the comment Joe. I could keep the OLD, but this is much better. Keeping the same functionality. This ECU is strictly engine fuel and ignition, as is the OEM ECU. Have been learning a lot. Lots of info on the web and such that supports doing an ECU upgrade. Many people change their engine parameters such as increasing HP, punching the engine, different cam, lifters and such. With all this, and the fact that the OEM ECU was never intended to compensate for all these changes, people have trouble getting their new engine to operate quite right, close but no cigar. Enter the aftermarket ECU, inexpensive or expensive, the options are endless.

This small ECU I'm working on has an oil monitor function I believe, not sure. Can do sequential fuel injection. Need to install an O2 sensor.

Want to do an add on that monitors the CFI system parameters much like the OEM ECU does. Bluetooth functionality to connect to the tuning software without attaching a cable. Lots of options.

Learned a few programming languages back in the day; Fortran, Pascal, Basic, Cobol, HTML. Now I have to learn about the Arduino language, a sort of pseudo "C" language. Lots of info available.

Take a look at the Speeduino forum: Index page - Speeduino Plenty of projects to read about - especially older vehicles. Videos abound as well.
 
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Rednaxs60

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Progress - have installed the Speeduino on the bike using the OEM wiring harness:
Speeduino Connected.JPG
Powered up and no smoke. Have had some early issues. Fuel pump was not priming for the set time - pin selection and how the settings were burned to the MEGA. have this resolved.

No spark, setting issue. Will be removing spark plugs tomorrow and using a timing light I have to look at #1 TDC. ran the battery down today, LifePo4 - hope I haven't damaged it.
 
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Rednaxs60

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Had an epiphany regarding the no spark or tach. The Speeduino requires a digital signal for the cam/crank signals. The crank sensor is VR. The cam sensor is a Hall effect sensor with a VR output. The Speeduino interface board has 4 pins to select from. Two for Hall effect signals - digital square wave, and two for VR signals.

Had the cam/crank signals connected to the pins that bypass the VR conditioner board. Have changed these so that the VR signals go through the VR conditioner. Hopefully this will get better results, maybe a tach readout, and a "burp" on engine firing.

Have to do the vacuum hose mod that I gleaned from socrace's FI conversion.

Have to remember that the pin selection for any reassignment such as the pin selection for the fuel pump has to be the Arduino MEGA 2560 pin selection. This is because the Arduino MEGA 2560 is the CPU/brains of the ECU, the Speeduino board v0.4.4 is an interface board between the system and CPU (Arduino MEGA 2560).

Put the LifePo4 battery on charge. It has come up to a full state of charge. It has a built in BMS.
 

EarlyGWCollector

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Rednaxs60

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Once you get an understanding of the Speeduino, gets easier.

EarlyGWCollector - The '84 and '87 carb bikes are totally different from the '85/'86 fuel injected models. I'm woking on replacing a component of the computerized fuel injection (CFI) system, just happens to be the ECU. I am doing fuel and ignition together. A lot of people would only do one or the other, get the one being changed working correctly, then move on to another aspect, maybe not.

In your case fuel is what it is - carbs. The ignition aspect can be taken care of with a new CDI unit, enter the Speeduino or suitable alternative. Don't know how you would do it, take some research and reading. Definitely a possibility.

Had an epiphany in the early morning hours. I cannot adjust the timing with the existing OEM system. No way to change the ECU programming. I have had an issue with vacuum since I bought my '85 Limited Edition. The engine vacuum has never been above 10 in of HG at idle. The vacuum gauge indicates that this may be caused by vacuum leaks - the vacuum system is tight, use starting fluid to troubleshoot, or timing is off. Will be able to tweak the engine timing with the Speeduino.
 
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Rednaxs60

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EarlyGWCollector - had a read of the Clymer manual regarding the 1200 ignition control module. The 1200 carb models electronically control spark and engine timing with the ignition control module. There is no way to adjust the timing.

As per Clymer manual, the timing is adjusted in relation to engine speed when using 1st through 3rd gear. When in 4th or 5th, the control module switches to an ignition pattern that is varied according to engine vacuum. I notice that there is a vacuum hose from a cylinder to the control module. Fuel is set by the carbs.

You had mentioned a speed limiter, not on the GW; however, from what I have read it may seem that there is one depending on the gear you are in.

I have read a lot of posts regarding the carb 1000/1100/1200/1500 Gas and most times it's about improved performance.

The 1500s do not need to have the carbs tweaked because Honda designed the 1500 engine system to emulate an FI system. There are 5 major engine systems. Tweaking one can affect the others. The 1000/1100/1200 GWs are different.

The ignition control module can probably be changed to an aftermarket ECU that can control ignition timing from idle to full throttle. From what I have read and looking at the schematic, you would need to install a MAP sensor, two 4 wire spark igniters (use the ones from an '85/'86 FI model), a new trigger wheel (use a 1500 trigger wheel 12-1 - fits on the crank shaft output between the timing belt crank pulleys). Would only need one crank trigger wheel sensor - the ones fitted will work well. Take the gear shift out of the equation. You could install the new unit using the existing wiring harness so that you can revert back to the OEM system if you choose. Unfortunately the carbs would have to stay initially. This could be a stepping stone to an EFI conversion.

EFI conversions are discussed and some come to fruition, but not many. These are a long term and most times, an expensive proposition.

Once a person becomes comfortable with the new ignition control module, the next step to a full EFI system is not a major step. Parts and pieces are the issue; however, in perusing the aftermarket EFI forums -specifically the Speeduino forum, it is mind boggling how many different manufacturer parts are cobbled together In some of the builds. The point is that if the parts being used are compatible with a specific aftermarket ECU, all is well. Auto wrecking yards are the shopping place for these type of projects. We are fortunate in that Mr Honda designed the GWs with an automotive flavour.

A person can change/test different carb jets, but without being able to adjust the timing to suit it will never be quite right. An example would be taking a modern day Camaro/Mustang at say some 350 HP and pumping up the volume to say 600 HP and expecting the OEM ECU to take it I stride and perform well - doesn't happen. Not designed for the new conditions.

I have mentioned that the proliferation of add-on/piggyback units are out there to address the symptoms for a perceived need. We love to play/tweak and I'm no different. My point is that a person can play/tweak as much as necessary, but the OEM designed its vehicles to do "X" and we want the "Y" - chasing the holy grail so to speak.

Just a few thoughts, and always, just MHO.
 
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Rednaxs60

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Have been reading and perusing information regarding barometric compensation with the Speeduino ECU. Lots of queries regarding this issue, not a lot of resolution. Have found some info on the Speeduino forum, and I think an answer to one my thoughts/questions - active barometric readings.

Have read that Speeduino uses the MAP sensor read at start as the base for the barometric setting. This does not change after this, and does not compensate for altitude adjustment. A person mentioned on one of the threads that he would shut the engine off and restart to get a new barometric baseline when in the mountains. Ingenious, but addressing symptoms instead of the issue, that of dynamic active barometric readings.

In my quest for information on how to use an external MAP sensor specifically for barometric readings, I have scoured this forum. Using an external MAP sensor negates the use of the on board MAP sensor - hope there are no pin changes to be made regarding this.

Found a post by PSIG regarding using the on board MAP sensor and the pin change to be made: post 55543 of thread https://speeduino.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... sor#p55526.

The Arduino pin for the barometric input appears to be A5. To use an external MAP sensor specifically for active barometric readings, would have to connect the external MAP sensor to the Arduino A5 pin through a v0.4.4 board reassignment, similar to reassigning pins for the fuel pump.

It is suggested to use Arduino pin A15 as the input from the external MAP sensor. From this I expect that you would use Tuner Studio to connect this Arduino pin A15 pin to Arduino pin A5. Arduino pin A5 is the baro sensor input. I could also do a continuity check of the pins between the Arduino pin A5 and the v0.4.4 board IDC connector. Would still have to find the respective IDC pin for the Arduino pin A15.

Another option would be to use the on board MAP sensor for MAP, and use the external MAP v0.4.4 pin for the barometric reading. A pin reassignment might have to be done to get to the Arduino pin A5.

What happens on engine start is that the baro pressure at start is read by the Speeduino and this value is used for the duration of operation until engine shut down. The only way to alter this is to stop/start the engine to reset the value and carry on. Bit of an issue if you are travelling in the mountains. Active baro sensing is a better and compensates for weather, altitude and such.

Honda installed a MAP sensor on the ECU cct board, little black box in this photo, guess which one is the original ECU, would think that the CX500/CX650 turbos would have one installed as well:

I surmise that this sensor is for active baro measurements because, on my GW, there are two external MAP sensors for the ECU to get readings for the various maps used.

The Arduino 2560 has a dedicated pin A5 for the "input pin for Baro sensor". Going to put this aside for the moment, but it has tweaked my curiosity and I will continue to try and get a handle on the issue.

My O2 sensor from 14point7 came in, as did my new handheld OWON 2 CH oscilloscope/multimeter/signal generator unit. Nice kit, less than $100.00 CDN. More necessary components should be arriving today.

Have to find some real estate to install the O2 sensor. Looked yesterday, thinking the left side exhaust header just above the footage can be used.

Going with an external MAP sensor to start, a Denso 079800 - one of the MAP sensors in the drop down listing in Tuner Studio. Using the Suzuki IAP sensor presently on the GW, working well, but it is not aligning with the specs from Honda, neither does the OEM PB (MAP) sensors. Going to bench test for values, may be a better fit than the Suzuki sensor.
 
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Rednaxs60

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Trying to get a handle on what the spark igniters are doing. The settings in Tuner Studio (TS) are GOING HIGH or GOING LOW. This apparently refers to when the coil fires through the spark plugs. Have these two scope traces. First being the coil trace:

Spark Igniter Trace 4.JPG

You will notice that the coil charges when the ECU grounds the input signal, voltage drops for approximately 10 ms then the ECU removes the ground, the voltage spikes representing the initial discharge to bridge the spark plug gap, then it levels off and the spark is maintained for approximately 1.5 ms then peters off.

The ECU trace correlates with this:
Spark Ignter Wave Form 1.JPG
The spark igniter rests for some 40 ms then grounds the spark igniter. There is approximately a 10 ms dwell period to charge the coil then the ECU ground is removed. This is where in the above picture you see a significant voltage spike in the coil scope trace.

The new scope meter I have has two channels. Will try to get both traces on the same screen.

Received my Father's timing light in the mail from my brother:
Timing Light 2.jpg

Checked the timing and dwell. Used the right side timing belt pulley, easier than getting at the flywheel timing mark. Dwell came in at 15 deg. This correlates with the readings I have from the old tach/dwell meter I have. Took this reading from the coil:

Dwell From Coil.JPG
On to the O2 sensor placement, procrastinating because of the temp in the garage.

Probably looking at a lot of the minutiae that I really don't have to for this project, but it is interesting to find out the information. Found a web site that discussed using scope traces to determine if plugs are fouled. The way car engines are crammed into the engine compartment, good to know info.
 
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Rednaxs60

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Did a test of JB Weld strength a while back for a different project. Used JB Weld to secure a nut to a piece of angle iron:
JB Weld Test.JPG
Let it sit inside for a few days then applied 30 ft/lbs of torque to it. As good as if welded. Thinking this will be good for the O2 sensor bung. Supposed to be good for temps up to 550 deg F. The only real estate available for install is where the pinkish dot is on the exhaust header:
Exhaust Header .JPG
Tight fit but it will do.
 

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