1985 GL1200 LTD Reg/Rec

[Rednaxs60]

Did some wiring cleanup yesterday and finally noticed that the reg/rec is a Shindengen FA574A-12. This is apparently an upgrade for the '86 SEI but since both bikes are virtually the same, it works well on my '85 LTD. Have searched on line for specs regarding this rectifier but have yet to find any. My question is, is it a mosfet or shunt style reg/rec?

Cheers

 

[zman]

The F usually denotes FET but even still the FET are shunt only they use FET transistors instead of diodes, still way better then stock type... There is a true non shunt series RR I found and put a link in a post I made in electrical and lighting, Think it was used in the Polaris products...I see if I can find it.
Here`s my post about the true series regulator.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10507

 

[Rednaxs60]

Zman - thanks for the info. Bike's charging system is working well right now, but do like the concept of the series regulator. Went through the sites you listed and those that followed from there. Noticed a lot of discussion regarding stopping current flow at the regulator and only having as much current as needed flowing. Makes sense to me if the need is not there, stop the flow, and in doing so should be good for the stator.

One could argue that the stator on my '85 GL1200 LTD puts out full power all the time, this is only possible if there is a "path" for the power to flow to. I submit and agree that the "potential" is there, but need a "path" for the power to go.

Even though the stator on an '85 GL1200 LTD is rated at approximately 500 watts (ergo 50 Amps approximately) the main fuse for the bike is a 30 amp fuse. This would lead me to believe that the SH775 reg/rec would do the job quite nicely. Have added this reg/rec to my parts list for the '85.

Will continue to follow this issue/item.

Cheers

 

[Rednaxs60]

Led into the series reg/rec a bit further. I had this topic on another site and it was recommended to look at the SH847 series regulator. This is the 50 amp variant whereas the SH775 is a 30 amp. Since my '85 LTD has a stator that is rated at approximately 500 watts (50 amps approximately) I have decided to purchase the SH847. I like the idea of regulating the output fro the stator to just what is needed. Will post how it performs after I receive and install.

I also thought of the old generators we had back when and how the stator-generator are essentially the same. The regulator for automotive generators was extremely rudimentary on/off, but only charged the battery up to a certain level, and only at the rate it was putting out (varied with speed). This is the same as on our bikes, stator output is based on engine rpm, and varies depending up to a certain rpm after which it is at max output; however, if there is no path for the current to flow to there is no output. My thoughts hopefully on the mark.

Cheers

 

[zman]

Well that is the consensus from what I have read, our diode and FET operated RR`s short current to ground which heats up the regulator and must be heating the windings in turn, I am sure you seen the infrared pictures of the before and after install where the temps went down about 20 some degrees after the series RR install, as well the RR temp went down accordingly.also been said that since it is a PM type it is charging regardless but obviously under less of a load or the temp would stay the same.
I was also looking at the 50 amp, for 200 bucks a kit it really makes sense to go with 50A rather then the 775 30A at 149, Keep us posted about the results when you get one(if I don't get one first).
By the way that heat test may have been comparing a FET to a series which should make an even more dramatic temperature difference if you are using an old Diode type RR.

 

[dan filipi]

I would like to see a before and after amperage load on the yellow wires, both with all accessories and lights turned on and turned off. That would tell the true deal if in fact the new RR does reduce stator load.

 

[Rednaxs60]

dan filipi » Today, 11:38 am[/url]":35lo4y2w]
I would like to see a before and after amperage load on the yellow wires, both with all accessories and lights turned on and turned off. That would tell the true deal if in fact the new RR does reduce stator load.

The only accessory that I can turn off are the driving lights, everything else is on. Don't use the compressor, or the CB, and if I did it would not make that much difference. Also don't have a meter to check the current.

Cheers

 

[Ansimp]

30a is more than sufficient for a 500w charging circuit especially if you are using a Mofset style.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Ordered the SH847 this morning and it's in the mail already. Have been corresponding with Jack from the company and posed a question about the in-line capacitor that is between the RR and starter solenoid on the charging wire. A capacitor works essentially the same as a capacitor in this instance in that it absorbs energy, discharges energy and in doing so smooths out the flow of voltage and power. I surmise that it is there to do just this because of the shunt style RR that takes the extra power from the stator and puts it to ground, using the capacitor to take up the slack as the RR transfers power from ground to the battery because of load and conversely the other way when requirement is reduced. Have sent schematic of the power distribution system for the LTD, and waiting for a response.

Cheers

 

[Rednaxs60]

Here's the power distribution schematic for the LTD:

 

[dan filipi]

Maybe needs the smooth even power flow for the bikes electronics?

 

[Rednaxs60]

dan filipi » 4 minutes ago[/url]":1dngm1co]
Maybe needs the smooth even power flow for the bikes electronics?

My thoughts as well. Wonder about the use of the capacitor with the new RR?

 

[zman]

Rednaxs60 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:19 pm[/url]":1fwdwh9b]

dan filipi » 4 minutes ago[/url]":1fwdwh9b]
Maybe needs the smooth even power flow for the bikes electronics?

My thoughts as well. Wonder about the use of the capacitor with the new RR?

I wouldn't think you would need it with a steady flow of charge, think it would be useful for sweeping changes but the new RR may solve that, what say Jack?

 

[Ansimp]

I think it would be more about spike or noise suppression, it certainly won't hurt to leave it in with the new RR

 

[Rednaxs60]

I have sent Jack the schematic and he is adamant to hook it up just as per his instructions. I do think it has a purpose and will first hook the system up with it. If all is well no need to change it.

Cheers

 

[zman]

Rednaxs60 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:17 pm[/url]":302yod45]
I have sent Jack the schematic and he is adamant to hook it up just as per his instructions. I do think it has a purpose and will first hook the system up with it. If all is well no need to change it.

Cheers

Where it is at in the circuit it cant hurt to leave it..I would do the same.

 

[Rednaxs60]

zman » 10 minutes ago[/url]":20bz5txa]

Rednaxs60 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:17 pm[/url]":20bz5txa]
I have sent Jack the schematic and he is adamant to hook it up just as per his instructions. I do think it has a purpose and will first hook the system up with it. If all is well no need to change it.

Cheers

Where it is at in the circuit it cant hurt to leave it..I would do the same.

The schematic is in my post #10.

The bikes that this has been trialed and installed on: "These are 50 amp peak models that have been tested on the Rotax motored Buell and Aprilia models and have been working great. They have been running these on the 600 Ducati with no issues." I agree with the write up; however, the difference is the electronics combined with the radio, CB.

By definition: "Capacitors are widely used in electronic circuits for blocking direct current while allowing alternating current to pass. In analog filter networks, they smooth the output of power supplies. In resonant circuits they tune radios to particular frequencies. In electric power transmission systems, they stabilize voltage and power flow."

My thought is that the capacitor in this circuit is to stabilize voltage and power flow, take the bumps out so to speak. Like you say, a capacitor will not hurt the system.

Cheers

 

[joedrum]

Hmmm interesting topic

 

[Rednaxs60]

Have been thinking about the installed shunt RR. I noticed that it had two ground wires, something I thought was different, but paid no heed to it. In retrospect, I would have to surmise that one wire is to ground the unit, the other is to shunt excess current/power to ground when required. Since all grounds essentially go back to the battery, the shunted current/power goes back to the "reservoir", namely the battery, with some of the current/power dissipated as heat by the RR. Since a system should be in "balance" or as close to as possible at all times, I wonder about the balance in the battery between the positive and negative if my premise is correct. Not being an electrical engineer, but having dealt with electrical systems my previous life, I wonder about issues such as this and will do some research to see if I can find a plausible answer.

This is also why I have a question about the capacitor that is in the charging circuit on an '85 LTD. If an upgrade/modification is going to eliminate/bypass an OEM design, I'd like to know that everything will be affected by the change.Worst case is to do two trials, one with and one without.

Would definitely like to find a schematic of my shunt RR to determine if my thoughts are correct.

Enough pontificating for now.

Cheers

 

[Rednaxs60]

Received the new SH847 RR from Roadstercycle today. Will have to wait until next week to install, short week as well as course starting Thursday. Looking forward to the install.

Cheers