Frame rot...

[Gc33]

sooo...im restoring or attempting to restore an 1100 wing... ive got it stripped to the frame and other parts ready to go to get sand or soda blasted. frame isnt in too bad a nick considering its been sitting for 15 years. but an inspection today revealed a couple of what looked like small cracks...i know the signs so dug a bit deeper9 pardon the pun) revealing some frame rot on lower right hand frame. I cleaned the 1st one up which is on a bit of a bend which my mate reckons he can sort...the other 2 though however im of the mind to cut the section out and re-weld a section in...your thoughts folks..or do I get that whole lover section re fabricated???
one of the pics is not the clearest but youll get my drift...

 

[joedrum]

There are many ways to fix this .....the best ways as all things considered is to not create more damage and also not move anything ...as in cutting things all the way through ...starting at welding the holes up ...if one used the right rods or wire and temp selections ...also could be plug filled into the frame and then welded up ..especially the bottom pic where the hole goes all the way through ...using solid stock cut it in and weld it up and grind smooth...me as a x farmer things when welded back had to be stronger or the just break again ...if your not a good welder better seek help from someone who is ...and listen to there fix solution ...as thing go this is not a severe stress level job but it needs to be stout and completely the same as is ...in my opinion

 

[Gc33]

joedrum » 54 minutes ago[/url]":3ct71c6i]
There are many ways to fix this .....the best ways as all things considered is to not create more damage and also not move anything ...as in cutting things all the way through ...starting at welding the holes up ...if one used the right rods or wire and temp selections ...also could be plug filled into the frame and then welded up ..especially the bottom pic where the hole goes all the way through ...using solid stock cut it in and weld it up and grind smooth...me as a x farmer things when welded back had to be stronger or the just break again ...if your not a good welder better seek help from someone who is ...and listen to there fix solution ...as thing go this is not a severe stress level job but it needs to be stout and completely the same as is ...in my opinion

Cheers for the reply... Yeah I'm not gonna be doing any welding on it.. Butcher by trade and sometimes by nature. My neighbour however is a boily (boilermaker) so has kindly agreed to check it out. He has tig MIG and arc welders so he's pretty well equipped. I need to get it all done before I go get blasted and coated.

 

[DaveKamp]

This failure isn't the result of 'weakness' in structural design, it's the result of corrosion chewing into metal that thinned out.

I'd call the boilermaker, and have him put his Ultrasonic Thickness Indicator on the frame in regular locations, as if he's doing a pressure-vessel certification matrix, and check to see if there's other areas that've thinned out substantially... and if so, consider finding a new frame (sigh).

If the erosion you see here is localized, then what I would recommend, is taking some flat stock that's about 1/8" thicker than the original wall thickness, warming it up in a small furnace, placing it on a mandrel and shaping it to lay over the outside of the tubing, and once the basic curves are done, lay it (red hot) over the frame, and gently form it into shape so that it's very tight around the frame, and once cooled, TIG or MIG it to the frame, then grind it smooth with a flap-disk in a 4" electric hand grinder. With that around it, and appropriately welded around the perimeter, you'll have no problems with it.

 

[saganaga]

A good bicycle frame builder should have the skills to repair it, if it is repairable, but frame builders are only slightly less rare than thatchers.

 

[Gc33]

Problem solved... Found a guy here in Perth WA to repair it.. He builds and repairs mainly Norton frames.. That's speciality... And omg. He's got some nice machinery he's working on. He's older gent... Worries me a bit when guys with these skills and no one else is learning the art.
Anyways.. He's taken a look over it... He s gonna cut that whole section out from the rear weld to just above the front bend on the down tube... He's also going to replace the bolts/mounting points where the left hand frame unbolt to remove engine...
No time frame... Be done when it's done..

 

[pidjones]

Honda frames have places that allow water in, but also places to allow it to flow out. Keeping the drain holes open is the best way to keep them from rusting from the inside out. Unfortunately, our older bikes have their individual historys, and so many have been left in the elements for years with no checking for open drain holes. My '79 has a bad spot, and I'm considering cutting that section out and replacing it with a section from a frame that has had the serial number ground off. I've already swapped the removable sections (a prime spot for decay in my limited experience).

 

[Gc33]

pidjones » 25 minutes ago[/url]":1ya9bviz]
Honda frames have places that allow water in, but also places to allow it to flow out. Keeping the drain holes open is the best way to keep them from rusting from the inside out. Unfortunately, our older bikes have their individual historys, and so many have been left in the elements for years with no checking for open drain holes. My '79 has a bad spot, and I'm considering cutting that section out and replacing it with a section from a frame that has had the serial number ground off. I've already swapped the removable sections (a prime spot for decay in my limited experience).

It's always in the lower down tube of frames...not just wings.. All the earlier bikes. An 81 Cr 250r elsinore I had was really bad.. Ended up getting another frame... 2 be expected from older bikes.

 

[Gc33]

For anyone that's interested.. This is the guy I'm using for frame repair...
Cycle Craft Engineering

7/96-100 Briggs St, Welshpool WA 6106
(08) 9361 4619

https://g.co/kgs/qB5BjJ

 

[Old Fogey]

Gc33 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:41 am[/url]":1355zkh3]
Problem solved... Found a guy here in Perth WA to repair it.. He builds and repairs mainly Norton frames.. That's speciality... And omg. He's got some nice machinery he's working on. He's older gent... Worries me a bit when guys with these skills and no one else is learning the art.
Anyways.. He's taken a look over it... He s gonna cut that whole section out from the rear weld to just above the front bend on the down tube... He's also going to replace the bolts/mounting points where the left hand frame unbolt to remove engine...
No time frame... Be done when it's done..

you may not believe where the drain holes are on these frames! take a look: https://wingovations.com/checking-the-frame/4579471101

 

[Gc33]

Old Fogey » Today- 0:43[/url]":3dhag6tv]

Gc33 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:41 am[/url]":3dhag6tv]
Problem solved... Found a guy here in Perth WA to repair it.. He builds and repairs mainly Norton frames.. That's speciality... And omg. He's got some nice machinery he's working on. He's older gent... Worries me a bit when guys with these skills and no one else is learning the art.
Anyways.. He's taken a look over it... He s gonna cut that whole section out from the rear weld to just above the front bend on the down tube... He's also going to replace the bolts/mounting points where the left hand frame unbolt to remove engine...
No time frame... Be done when it's done..

you may not believe where the drain holes are on these frames! take a look: https://wingovations.com/checking-the-frame/4579471101

 

[Ansimp]

Gc33 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:41 pm[/url]":3dwvm2lw]
Problem solved... Found a guy here in Perth WA to repair it.. He builds and repairs mainly Norton frames.. That's speciality... And omg. He's got some nice machinery he's working on. He's older gent... Worries me a bit when guys with these skills and no one else is learning the art.
Anyways.. He's taken a look over it... He s gonna cut that whole section out from the rear weld to just above the front bend on the down tube... He's also going to replace the bolts/mounting points where the left hand frame unbolt to remove engine...
No time frame... Be done when it's done..

:good: