GL1200 Engine Rebuild - Part 4 - Getting to the Road

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Rednaxs60

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Fortunately the FD is on the workbench. Have to get a bearing puller now. Least expensive I can find on amazon is $51.00 CDN, but may need to on/off the bearing several times to get the correct backlash. Sonya has started her kitchen remodeling project, cutting into the GW work.

Did some additional research on the fast idle issue. The Supplement does mention a rough idle at cold start. There is a test procedure to determine the function of the fuel pressure relief valve. Did some on line looking as well. It appears that if the fuel pressure regulator is starting to fail, cold starts will not have a fast idle. You have to add throttle to get the RPMs up, but once the fuel pressure catches up with the engine requirements, you do have a fast idle and engine RPM will slowly drop as the engine temp goes up. The Supplement recommends pinching the fuel return hose and if the fuel pressure goes up, replace the fuel pressure regulator. This also affects the fuel burn on start. Not enough air through the IAC valve to properly combust the fuel required by the ECU, and with this comes carbon build up and an unburnt fuel smell on start. Have been looking at fuel pressure regulators on Amazon/eBay.

Will be looking into this when I get the FD sorted out.
 

pidjones

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Is the LTD/SEi different from the other 1200s? Must be thousands of Interstates and Aspencades scrapped, many with low miles.
 

Rednaxs60

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[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=221364#p221364:2x5vk49l said:
pidjones » Yesterday, 8:02 pm[/url]":2x5vk49l]
Is the LTD/SEi different from the other 1200s? Must be thousands of Interstates and Aspencades scrapped, many with low miles.

The Limited Edition/SE-i have the same FD. The issue here is getting one without breaking the bank with shipping. Most used final drives are in the US - exchange, duty, taxes, shipping. Even with the cross border broker, it's not inexpensive. Will look though, May be a faster option.

Looked on line, some good possibilities. Here's one from an eBay post. 1989 88-90 Honda GL1500 Goldwing OEM Rear Swingarm Final Drive U Joint Lot:
Rear Drive Train.jpg
Supposed to be for a 1500. This unit would be about $200.00 to me. Checked the fiche, the P/N is identical, except for the model it is used on. The u-joint is similar as well. It would appear that the '88 1500 was a transition year for the 1500 and Honda used the same parts for the drive train as was on the 1200.

Anyone have some insight into this?

This one is just the FD out of Michigan - 58K miles: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1985-85-HONDA-G ... GTR=1#shId This one would be $150.00 to my door.

Here's another for an '85 SE-i:
Rear Drive FD 1985 SEi.jpg
Web site: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1985-HONDA-GOLD ... SwO8tc1HyU Not likely for any 1200.
 

joedrum

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Yes I do Ernest the 89 -90 I think FD are the same even the wheels rear wheels have the same line up ..from what I see in pic the swing arm will fit but is longer I'm sure you don't want to use that brakes would have change . on my bike hooch I have the 1200 set up and swing arm brakes wheel on my 1000 bike ..made the bike 3"longer if I remember right .with your FI bike I see no problem ...if my memory is not lying lol
 

Rednaxs60

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Gerry - what program did you use for the wiring diagram. Can do a lot, but find these type of programs illusive.

Mike - looked at Straightwings. No 1200 FD. Has one early '88 FD - $182.00 USD - all his prices are in USD.

Joe - I'm thinking the same regarding the '88 FD. Have looked at the fiche. The inside case uses the same oil seal as the 1200, this would imply that where the rear wheel final drive gear fits would be the same. Already know that there may be a requirement to make the swingarm bolt holes larger. The 1200 wheel axle can be used. Most internal parts are the same as the 1200, and have the MG9 designation. The gear set appears to be the same, and if so it would be a good replacement unit.

More info on this issue. Went to my info list and there is a good write up by deanbw on GW Docs about the rear wheel driven flange. Very detailed and great info. Here's the thread: https://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25817 This thread mentions other threads as well to peruse.

This thread discusses the use of the 1500 FD in a 1200 unit. The 1500 FD will fit using the 1200 prop shaft. According to what I have read the 1200 driven flange should fit nicely in the '88 FD because deanbw mentions that the driven flange from an '88/'89 will fit an '86/'87 rear wheel. Thinking that the rest of the wheel setup will go in as it does now.

A reason to consider the '88 FD is it is newer, and if I decide down the road to do the 1500 rear wheel mod, have a few pieces on hand. Another consideration is the difference in rim size. The 1200 is 15", the 1500 is 16". One of the reasons I am changing the rear shocks on my 1200 at this time is because the progressive shock eye to eye distance of 14.5" keeps the rear wheel on the ground when on the centre stand. Installing the 1500 16" rim would do this as well. Back to square one so to speak. Something to consider.

Update: lots of 1500 final drives listed on eBay, not so for the 1200.
 

mcgovern61

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[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=221376#p221376:25baw6gl said:
Rednaxs60 » Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:29 pm[/url]":25baw6gl]
Gerry - what program did you use for the wiring diagram. Can do a lot, but find these type of programs illusive.
I did the wiring diagrams in Microsoft Excel.
 

Rednaxs60

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Since I'm onto the 1500 into a 1200 rear end swap, have more info. I also have a later model 1500 rear rim, the one that needs a 5 pin driven flange, new rear brake rotor. The 1200 rear brake caliper will work, have a rear brake rotor. Need the FD, brake caliper mount, axle, 5 pin driven flange, and axle spacers. Going to actively search for these items. Thought of doing this a while back, but the rear wheel has been working well. The threads I have read are very informative in that one fellow mentioned that if not keeping the bike, stay with the 1200 setup, keeping the bike so going to do the mod. Will be looking at tire size in that I don't really want to raise the rear of the bike an additional inch. Lots of information if you go look, but have some more information to share.

Over on the Steve Saunders forum found this good thread and post. Thread: https://www.goldwingfacts.com/threads/m ... st-1703504

Post:

The adapter you have has 6 pins, all 1200 wheels have 6 pins as do the 88-89 GL1500s (1990 and up have 5 pins) so you can use any other 1200 final drive spline adapter or a same piece from a 88-89 GL1500 if you know of one that's triked.

You can in fact, use any year 1500 final drive, but you need a 6 pin final drive adapter to keep a 1200 rear wheel. You only have to drill out the 4 mount holes in the swing arm when using the 1500 final drive in place of the 1200 final drive, drill to 7/16" diameter. If you use a 1500 final drive, it does use a 1/4" longer axle and while not absolutely needed, that extra 1/4" sticking past the big nut is nice to see.

.............................................................................................

You can also use the whole 1500 rear end set up, with better wheel bearing support and double row inner drive side bearing and get a larger, more powerful rear brake, but you would need the 1500 final drive, wheel, adapters, spacers, brake caliper mount, axle, etc.

Still use 1200 drive shaft.

Now you might also be able to use a C/T (the taxi tire?) on this rim if it will also fit under the fender, I know it is no wider!
1500 rears are some easier to find as more were converted to trikes. I'll paint my wheels spokes black.

To install the 1500 final / wheel with bigger double row bearing / and larger brake rotor.

Drill out the four drive shaft tube to differential bolt holes to 7/16".

You must machine or grind the 1500 caliper mount on the side nearest swing arm and away from wheel:
1500 Caliper Holder.jpg


Use the 1200 axle and the single spacer from the 1500 on left side.

Route the brake hose to the outside of the left shock.

The left lower shock/caliper mount bolt will also need to be ground down 1/4" shorter to clear the rotor.

Using 1500 final / wheel / brake is reputed to center the wheel better in the swing arm than the stock 1200 which has a slight offset.

............................................................................
To install just the 1500 final drive ....
The 1200 flange will fit the 1500 drive if you want to install your 1200 wheel on a 1500 drive, but then you keep the 1200 smaller rear brake disc and mount and two spacers on left side, etc. To do this, you just need to drill out the 4 holes in the swing arm.

The 1500 rear wheel has a double race main weight carrying bearing in a more solid mounting than the single row one in the 1200 wheel that tends to wobble out the weakly reinforced mounting ring in the 1200 wheel (It's not the 1200 bearing that spins .... rather it's the pounding of the heavy bike and the fact that the rear drive side bearing is carrying most of the weight on this one bearing nearest the center of the wheel that pounds out the weakly re-enforced aluminum area where the bearing mounts in the wheel).

The 1500 rear wheel arrangement comes with a larger diameter rear brake rotor which greatly increases rear braking, even though pad and caliper is the same as effective leverage and swept area is increased.

The 1500 differential uses slightly larger bolts to attach to the swing-arm, hence drilling the 4 holes.

You will need to use the 1500 brake caliper mounting bracket due to the larger rotor on the 1500 wheel. The calipers are identical on both the 1200 and the 1500, but the 1500 mounting bracket will need to be ground down to fit into the 1200 swing arm.

Info on tire size:

Using the 150/90-15 as a comparison, the stock GL1500 size ends up being just a hair under 1/2" taller. Not a big difference. Now with the 150/80-16, that ends up being .18" smaller than the 150/90-15. Then using the GL1500 rim, if you are so inclined to to go to the "darkside" and use a 175/60R16, that would be just over an inch shorter than the 150/90-15 and would be a great choice for those that are inseam challenged.
 

Rednaxs60

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Have done a marathon look on the internet regarding the 1500 rear parts I would need. Have found a complete swingarm unit with FD, 5 pin driven flange, axle, spacers, u-joint and a couple of other pieces - $144.00 CDN + $41.00 CDN shipping to my US cross border broker. Rear brake caliper mount $20.00 CDN free shipping to my cross border broker. The 1500 wheel I have will work, tire to be used is 150/80-16. Rational is good, would be spending some $150.00 just to get the bearing puller, have the shims delivered - don't know what shims would be required to get the 1200 FD into spec. Have purchased items from this seller before and had good service. Going to contact the seller regarding mileage on the swingarm unit, and ask if there are any discounts it can apply - can't hurt. The last time I ordered, we agreed on a price, but eBay wouldn't change the shipping price - contacted this seller and he refunded me the difference between what was agreed on and what eBay charged - good service. Checked shipping to my door - $120.00 USD instead of $31.00 USD to my cross border broker. This is a difference of $110.00 CDN. Should be able to get it across for less. Best deals I have found so far.
 
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