GL1200 Engine Rebuild - Part 5 - Post Getting To The Road

Help Support ClassicGoldWings:

Rednaxs60

Well-known member
CGW Supporter
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
2,430
Reaction score
29
Location
Victoria, BC,
The thread, Getting to the Road, Part 4 of this project was getting a bit long in the tooth, and since there have been some 400 Kms of road time, time to move on. The work/maintenance that I am now doing is a result of the project work to date, work/maintenance items that I have wanted to do for a while such as the 1500 rear end mod, and other issues that I now have time for.

The other 4 parts are:

Part 1: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=14067
Part 2: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=14282
Part 3: Assembly and Install - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=14284
Part 4: Getting to the Road - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=14323

I mentioned in Part 4 that I was sourcing and procuring a set of new hydraulic lifters for the engine. Have sourced and bought 7 of the 8 required.

The parting post in Part 4 is about the 1500 rear drive unit mod that I will be doing in the next few weeks - main reason is lack of available 1200 FDs. Here's the last post of Part 4:

"Have done a marathon look on the internet regarding the 1500 rear parts I would need. Have found a complete swingarm unit with FD, 5 pin driven flange, axle, spacers, u-joint and a couple of other pieces - $144.00 CDN + $41.00 CDN shipping to my US cross border broker. Rear brake caliper mount $20.00 CDN free shipping to my cross border broker. The 1500 wheel I have will work, tire to be used is 150/80-16. Rational is good, would be spending some $150.00 just to get the bearing puller, have the shims delivered - don't know what shims would be required to get the 1200 FD into spec. Have purchased items from this seller before and had good service. Going to contact the seller regarding mileage on the swingarm unit, and ask if there are any discounts it can apply - can't hurt. The last time I ordered, we agreed on a price, but eBay wouldn't change the shipping price - contacted this seller and he refunded me the difference between what was agreed on and what eBay charged - good service. Checked shipping to my door - $120.00 USD instead of $31.00 USD to my cross border broker. This is a difference of $110.00 CDN. Should be able to get it across for less. Best deals I have found so far."

More information:

1) ... use GL-1200 rear wheel, brake rotor and caliper bracket, and 2 spacers, and either axle and ...
* ... use a '84/'85 rear wheel with a '84/'85 drive flange and any year 1500 final** <*>.
* ... use a '86/'87 rear wheel with a '86/'87 drive flange and any year 1500 final** <*>.
* ... use a '86/'87 rear wheel with a '88/'89 1500 drive flange and any year 1500 final**.
<*>.When using a 1200 wheel and a 1500 final, may have to discard plastic dust shield or machine wheel.

2) ... use GL-1500 16" rear wheel, larger brake rotor and caliper bracket, single spacer, and either axle and ...
* ... use a '88/'89 rear wheel with a '88/'89 1500 drive flange and any year 1500 final**.
* ... use a '90/'00 rear wheel with a '90/'00 1500 drive flange and any year 1500 final**.

Lots to be documented on this, threads, information and such. There is very good information and testimonials on the various forums.

Lots to think about.
 

Rednaxs60

Well-known member
CGW Supporter
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
2,430
Reaction score
29
Location
Victoria, BC,
Thanks.

I looked at the fiche for the 1200 and 1500 final drives. Lots of MG9 parts used in the 1500 FD. The one difference I did find is the support bearing, item #26/27 depending on the year you look at, that is pressed into the main FD case, the one connected to the swingarm not the cover, is 4 mm thicker than the one for the 1200 FD. The dimension of the 1500 bearing is 35X62X18 mm, the dimension of the 12300 bearing - 6007 (C3) is 35X62X14 mm. Not only is the wheel bearing design better, but Honda made a small design upgrade in the FD internals.

Have contacted a trike conversion dealer here on the island regarding a 1500 rear wheel unit. He has a '97 1500 coming in for a trike conversion. We discussed my requirements, and I did mention what was available on the internet and for what price. He'll let me know in a few weeks, and until then I will keep myself busy with other work. Don't expect there to be a run on these parts any time soon.

The tire I will be using is a Michelin Commander III, 150/80-16. Like the Michelin Commander tire line. Had some 30K Kms on a set of Michelin Commander II on this bike. Think the Michelin Commander III line is designed to compete with the Dunlop Elite 4.

Sourced the last hydraulic lifter out of the UK, paid for and being sent. Have a full set now that will make for a good work item this fall/winter - if required. Still have to do a shim check.

Cheers
 

Rednaxs60

Well-known member
CGW Supporter
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
2,430
Reaction score
29
Location
Victoria, BC,
Had the procedure today, the one that you get every 5 years after 60. Went well, all's good.

Ordered the 1500 rear parts for the 1500 rear wheel mod. Should be here next week.

Have 4 out of eight hydraulic lifters on hand, picking up a few more tomorrow.

ASPY dash arrived, will be taking the odometer out this week. Can do two things. Replace the odometer as a whole, have to account for the difference in KMS, or take the motor from the ASPY odometer and install it in the Limited Edition odometer. One screw holds the motor. Will test the odometer once installed with the dash out of the fairing. Start engine, maybe just need the key on - engine not started, and use a drill to test the odometer repair.
 

Rednaxs60

Well-known member
CGW Supporter
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
2,430
Reaction score
29
Location
Victoria, BC,
I've been away for a bit. Have ordered and expect the 1500 FD unit by end this week. The 1500 rear caliper mounting bracket came in today. Waiting for the last two hydraulic lifters to arrive.

Did work on the handlebar switches. Looks pretty good:
Handlebar Switches.jpg
The extra space is for other additions such as a GPS holder and whatnot. The green indicator light is for the rad fan on or not, the orange indicator light is for the side stand switch, and the red indicator light is for the alternator. The upper switch is to turn the rad fan on manually, the lower one is for the driving lights. Have to figure how the back will be closed in:
Handlebar Switches 2.jpg


Want the 1500 FD unit to get here. Thinking I'll install the 1500 FD and use the 1200 rear wheel to start.

Be a couple of months yet before I get the Hagon shocks.

Things are quieting down.
 

dan filipi

Well-known member
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
CGW Supporter
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
22,078
Reaction score
60
Location
Van Nuys Ca.
My Bike Models
1983 Interstate
2018 KLR 650
2018 BMW S1000 RR
My Bike Logs forum link
https://classicgoldwings.com/forums/dan-filipi.122/
Clean wiring. Looks nice to keep it open and visible. Make a good conversation starter.
There must be some product out there could be used to seal everything.
 

Rednaxs60

Well-known member
CGW Supporter
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
2,430
Reaction score
29
Location
Victoria, BC,
Thinking I can fabricate an ABS cover that slips over the back. Don't know how I would attach it yet, probably get a revelation sometime in the early morning hours. Being able to weld aluminum would be nice and make for a very nice custom switch cover, but I will have to settle for a different look. Thinking I could spray the ABS with 1K epoxy grey primer, blend in not too bad.
 

pidjones

Well-known member
CGW Supporter
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Messages
1,396
Reaction score
3
Location
Clinton, TN
Go ahead and spray the ABS to match the bike. Go to your friendly Honda service department and ask them to save you some wreck take-offs. There will be screw bosses and such in them.
 

Rednaxs60

Well-known member
CGW Supporter
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
2,430
Reaction score
29
Location
Victoria, BC,
The 1500 FD unit came in today. Good haul I think for the money:
FD parts.jpg
Pic of swing arm not included. Customs here was good and let me go buckshee, had a cross border broker fee, but still less expensive then to my door.

Checked the play in the 1500 FD and it has very little slack in the gearing, almost imperceptible. Should notice a difference.

Did some measurements.

1200 FD width from axle nut to dust cover is 2 7/8 inch, 1500 distance is 3 1/16 inch.
1200 dust cover width is 1 1/16 inch, 1500 is 1 1/4 inch
1200 wheel spacer is 3 7/8 inch, 1500 is 4 1/32 inch

Bottom shock bolts are the same.

The PO didn't do a lot of maintenance. Prop shaft shows rust. The c-clip that is installed at factory was still on the shaft, service manual mentions that this c-clip can be discarded at first maintenance. The prop shaft to FD pinion joint cup is full of crud:
Poor Maintenance.jpg
Expect a few FD oil changes will be required to flush the FD.

You can fit the 1500 driven flange to the 1200 FD:
1500 driven flange in 1200 FD - 2.jpg
1500 driven flange in 1200 FD.jpg
Knowing this, installing a 1500 wheel in a 1200 FD and doing the necessary changes to ensure proper rear brake operation should be possible. Gets rid of the bearing issue. I will be installing the 1200 wheel for now for expediency.

I've read where the 1500 axle has been used in this mod. Too much sticking out the right side and not enough threads available to tighten up the axle; however, if you hang some of the axle out the left side the 1500 axle may be useable.

The 1500/1200 spacers are same diameter for bearing support, 1500 spacer is a little longer, but the 1500 axle spacer is necked:
1500 versus 1200 spacer.jpg


The 1200 dust cover will fit the 1500 FD but you will have to shave the small spacer bits off the dust cover for it to fit:
1200 dust cover.jpg
Will probably be doing this depending how the wheel aligns.

That's about it for the design side of this change.
 

Rednaxs60

Well-known member
CGW Supporter
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
2,430
Reaction score
29
Location
Victoria, BC,
Installed the 1500 FD today. Drilled out the swingarm FD holes to 7/16". Used the 1500 internal FD spacer:
1500 FD in 1200 with 1500 dust guard.jpg
The 1200 driven flange fit the 1500 FD just fine and I was able to use the 1200 caliper mount and spacers that are on the right side:
1200 spacers and caliper mount.jpg


Buttoned everything up and went for a ride. The "clunk" I used to have is gone, and because of this, hear other sounds that I have to think about. Shifting feels the same. Note to the collective, if you have a U/S 1200 FD, a 1500 FD will fit and you can use the 1200 bits.

Went for a road test and it rode well and the feel of the bike was good. Hear that soft ticking sound, mostly from the left side head. Still waiting on the last two hydraulic lifters.

Another test I did today was regarding the low idle on cold start. Read in the manual that it could possibly be the fuel pressure regulator, and to test this you start the bike and pinch the return line to determine if the fuel pressure goes up. I did not hook up the gauge, but did pinch the fuel return hose. When I did this, the engine wanted to stall, opposite to what I was expecting. I would have thought the engine would probably pick up in speed, but it did not. Don't know why this happened, new trial and have to do some research to find out what happened. Will hook up the pressure gauge and try again.
 

Rednaxs60

Well-known member
CGW Supporter
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
2,430
Reaction score
29
Location
Victoria, BC,
No, not certain; however, did not hear this before rebuild. I'll let it go for a bit and monitor.
 

Rednaxs60

Well-known member
CGW Supporter
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
2,430
Reaction score
29
Location
Victoria, BC,
Now that the 1500 is off to another good home, will be riding the 1200 more, mostly solo; however, the Mrs mentioned that our next ride out should be on the 1200. She keeps track of what riding we do on which, and she mentioned that she only rode on the 1200 twice last year in May.

Read that to bed the rings best is to put the engine under load, so what I am doing is riding in one gear less than I normally would, keeping the RPMs up in the 4000 and above range, shifting between 3500 and 4000. Do monitor the engine operating temp and have seen no issue so far. If the engine can't operate under these conditions, time for a new one. Will do this for a few times out and see what happens. I'm also thinking that the inexpensive rings I installed - $75.00 CDN for the 4 piston ring sets, may be an issue as well. Think I mentioned that the machine shop did not like the ring set I had. If the rings don't seat, good winter fall project to put in a good/better set. Fairly skilled at taking the engine out and splitting the engine cases. Would require a quick hone of the cylinders.

Still hear the ticking from the engine, comes and goes. Do not think it's the injectors. Going to ride the bike for a while. If the sound doesn't go away, will be looking into the lifter shim requirement - have a complete set of new lifters.

The 1500 FD install has worked out well. Still have a "clunk" in the rear, almost like something is taking up some slack - don't think it's the 1500 FD, hear the sound on the left side of the rear. A while ago I mentioned in another thread that I had procured new cush dampers from a fellow in Ontario. These cush dampers are ready to be installed, just have to remove the old. Have several of these cush dampers already made up, and have the outer and inner rings that I can use to make others. Thinking that the original cush dampers could be soft after some 37 odd years and/or the bushing that the driven flange slides into could be out of round and I cannot see this, a fresh set may be a good idea. Will get my thoughts and parts/pieces ready. There has to be a reason for the sound, just have to find it.
 

Rednaxs60

Well-known member
CGW Supporter
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
2,430
Reaction score
29
Location
Victoria, BC,
Took the 1200 for a ride over the local mountain, the Malahat, to Tim's in Mill Bay for a coffee and snack. The engine is starting to irk me. smoking on start - does clear up after a couple of minutes, but there should be next to nothing coming out the back end after a rebuild. The engine runs well, but there is that faint ticking that is speed dependent. Stopped on the way back at the machine shop that did the work on the engine. He refreshed his memory by looking at the bill and the notes he did. The machine shop did not like the ring sets I used and I'm thinking I know why now. Mentioned that I will probably be replacing the rings. The shop offered to do a quick hone, no charge. Won't have that many Kms on the engine before fall. Just need to find a set that will fit. Canuckxxxx used a set from a 2000 Chevy Tracker, 1.2/1.2/2.5 mm. Should be able to find a set that will fit the 75.5 mm bore.
 

Rednaxs60

Well-known member
CGW Supporter
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
2,430
Reaction score
29
Location
Victoria, BC,
Hopefully this can be uploaded. To me the sound is lifters - comments welcome. Have a new set of lifters to go in if necessary, but first a shim check:
 

Rednaxs60

Well-known member
CGW Supporter
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
2,430
Reaction score
29
Location
Victoria, BC,
The Hagon shocks I ordered a while back are enroute from Nova Scotia. Going to start taking the rear apart for install of the new shocks. Good time to check the shim adjustment of the hydraulic lifters.

Have acquired a spare 2006 Honda Goldwing OEM service manual. Keeping my 2006-2008 manual. Checked the cost of one of these on eBay and it's quite a shock what is being asked. Will be doing a 1500 inventory soon - 1500 gone. Know I will not get back everything I spent, but this is the way of the world. Intend to price everything to be attractive (don't want dust collectors), plus shipping in CDN dollars. Recoup enough for a dinner out maybe.:smilie_happy:
 

Rednaxs60

Well-known member
CGW Supporter
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
2,430
Reaction score
29
Location
Victoria, BC,
Taking the rear apart, Progressive shocks are off, Hagon shocks should be here by end week. Taking the front lower plastic off and will check the hydraulic valve shim. Otherwise it's try and ride.

Had a look at my thread, Ontario to BC - 1985 LTD (one of the pics made it to the home banner): viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13013 and I did a lot to that bike, hadn't really thought about it. Was a good experience and ride across Canada. There are two '85 Limited Editions in southern Ontario that can be had for $3300.00 CDN (for both). If these are still on the market next year, may have to have another discussion with my brother.
 

Gc33

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2019
Messages
351
Reaction score
2
Location
Perth
You've been a busy lad Ernest... Still ticking away with my 75...may be catching up with pedrotq from the other forum on break.... He's keen to assist in rebuilding the 1000 engine... Machine shop will probably have finished machining the bores to my new pistons by the time I get home on Thurs evening... I still want a 1200 tho...
 

Rednaxs60

Well-known member
CGW Supporter
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
2,430
Reaction score
29
Location
Victoria, BC,
Have been patiently waiting for the Hagon shocks to arrive, but no joy just yet. Checked the tracking of the package and noticed that Canada Post had tried to deliver the package, and confirm my address, but were not successful. Was expecting a good morning of conflict with the Canada Post, but this is not going to happen. Contacted the company and found out that the shipping person used the wrong address, changed one number and Canada Post could not find this address, doesn't exist. knowing this, will try to get the package turned around and brought back from Vancouver, but if not the company will be sending it back with the correct address and at its expense. More waiting, so be it.
 

Latest posts

Top