GL1200 Engine Rebuild

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Rednaxs60

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This C-19 issue has been clearing up the to do list quite well. Have lots of mini projects to do, but thinking of the major ones as well. My '85 Limited Edition is my retirement long term project. I've been working/maintaining it as required for the past 5 years. It is still a favourite to ride, and the Mrs likes to ride on it as well.

I've two major projects in mind for this bike. The first will be an engine rebuild, second is a fresh paint job. Painting is addictive, and after having freshened the paint on my 1500, like the new look, will do the 1200. This is spring of next year.

I will be doing the engine this fall/winter. Engine still performs well, but can't get rid of the smell coming out the exhaust. Expect the engine is a bit tired after some 36 years.

Have started accumulating the parts necessary for a rebuild. Most of these parts were bought over the past 5 years, oil seals for the engine output shaft - rear case for one, and such, when I would read that some were having issues finding the parts.

Have been sourcing and bookmarking various sites that have parts I need. Started a spreadsheet with what I have on hand and need to order.

Looking at a new primary drive chain P/N 23131-463-003 and 23114-MG9-000 Primary Damper Set, both aftermarket - any thoughts on these parts? Will make a bearing list of possible replacements.

The con rod and crank shaft bearings may be an issue. There is a company up island that I will contact and it installs new babbit on old shells. Could be used as a filler to keep costs down? Possibility.

Engine gasket set will be bought to provide the majority of the gaskets/o-rings and such that is needed; however will be using OEM head gaskets. This is because the head gaskets I used when I had the heads done last year needed to be "adjusted" to fit the dowels. No issues to date, but don't think it should be necessary to do any "adjustment" to the head gaskets. Engine Gasket set up here is approximately $200.00 CDN plus taxes shipped - supplier is in Ontario.

Have discussed the honing of the cylinders, and it's about $100.00 CDN for both halves.

Thinking the engine rebuild will be approximately $1,000.00 to $1500.00 CDN. Will breath new life into the old girl, and be a great ride. Have to take exchange, taxes, duty and such into account whenever I estimate costs.

Will update as I progress.

If wondering why, keeping the bike, and have never done this before. Seems this is the year of stay at home so need projects to keep busy. Steve83 mentioned on another thread that doing this is very rewarding, think so myself.
 

pidjones

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I would suggest an ongoing search for a few of the electronic components (computer, sensors, maybe a spare injector) as they are becoming quite rare. Would hate to see a fresh mechanical rebuild parked due to an electronics failure.
 

Rednaxs60

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Thanks - I'm always on the lookout for the electronics. The weakest link in the CFI system I think is the TPS. The QA/QC on these is suspect at best. Have asked a friend in Ontario if he would machine me a TPS adapter, he agreed so I now have to come up with a design. There is one I know of, a fellow in Saskatchewan did one.

Replaced the Ns sensor with new '85 Aspencade PG sensor set two years ago. The Gr/Gl sensor was replaced with new last year, when I saw it on line, grabbed immediately, have old as spare. The fellows on the CX500 forum have found an alternative replacement for these. Injectors were cleaned and flow tested two years ago. PB sensors replaced with Suzuki MAP sensors. These are newer, used on Suzuki bikes up to 2007. Found this alternative on the CX500 forum. Lots of similarities. ECU is on my list as well.

3D printers are starting to be used to do bits and pieces for bike installs. Checked the prices and these units are quickly becoming cost affordable. These might be similar to a good tap and die set for older bikes, a necessity one day I think.

Back to the topic at hand. Looking at bearing clearances according to Honda. See attached Word file.

Will be browsing the web sites to determine what is out there. Have seen the blue con rod bearings.
 

TheRepoGuy

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I’ll figure out where I saw it but have heard the TPS from an 85 fuel injected Honda Accord does work but has to be adapted to fit correctly. I think the mounting plate had to be removed and adapted to fit the LTD and SEi models


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Rednaxs60

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The TPS from an early model Civic/Accord/Prelude does work, but the QA/QC is questionable - have had new ones that were faulty from the get go. Have used these on my '85 Limited Edition as well as one that I put on the road and sold - last year I think, could be two years ago. With the external alt mod installed there is very little room to fit the TPS - have to modify the TPS body and bend the signal pins. I'm looking for one that can fit in the same space as the original and accommodate the external alt mod as well. I have asked a friend in Ontario if he would machine me an adapter. Going to make a drawing of what I want and send it to him to make. Making items work that are an alternative can be challenging.
 

mcgovern61

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I am curious about how you would compare the ride of your 1500 to the 1200. I have only ridden one '85 1200 LTD and it was a smooth, powerful bike that I would have taken over my '82 in a heartbeat! Here are the two girls side by side in 2010:

image.php
 

Rednaxs60

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[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=217722#p217722:n5fml7gm said:
mcgovern61 » 20 minutes ago[/url]":n5fml7gm]
I am curious about how you would compare the ride of your 1500 to the 1200. I have only ridden one '85 1200 LTD and it was a smooth, powerful bike that I would have taken over my '82 in a heartbeat! Here are the two girls side by side in 2010:

image.php

Gerry - this is not an easy question. My first cup of coffee was devoted to a response. I did a long dissertation to try and answer. For me, my 1200 is the better ride. Bike has been rebuilt mechanically, all bearings, springs - large and small, and such. The suspension has been upgraded with Race Tech springs and gold valve emulators in the front, Progressive series 412 shocks in the rear. The 1500 has Progressive springs - direct OEM replacement in the forks, and Progressive air shocks in the rear, other than these not a lot more done. I know exactly what the road surface is on the 1500, road feedback on the 1200 is negligible on the same road - chock this up to the suspension setup, got it right.

The seat is another integral part. The seat on the 1200 has been customized for the Mrs and I, not so on the 1500.

Power is not an issue, just different. The 1200 will go head to head with the 1500, just done differently. The 1200 relies on RPM for power, the 1500 is all torque. The 1200 engine is very smooth, but not as refined as the 1500. I like riding the 1200 because I am more engaged with the bike because I have to be aware of where I am riding, easy to lug the engine. It's more nimble than the 1500. It will be interesting to compare the ride after an engine rebuild.

Lots of variables. The 1200 is easier around town. Both are great bikes for solo and 2 up touring. 1500 for touring and pulling a trailer - no replacement for displacement. Changed the clutch in the 1200 at 115,000 Kms and the clutch was toast. Friction plates were done and the steel plates were blue from overheating, PO towed a trailer. Don't know what condition the 1500 clutch is in, may have it long enough to find out. 1500 engines are reasonable, so ride this one 'til it breaks, install used engine but change clutch first.

Intend to upgrade the 1500 front fork springs with heavier spring rates in the 1.1/1.2 kg/mm range this fall/winter. Installed new Progressive direct OEM replacement springs 2 years ago, think the OEM spring rate is around 0.8/0.9 kg/mm. Not a lot more can be done to the 1500.

This is the year of projects, and getting the to do list done. Hopefully back to some semblance of normality next year, couple of nice long tours to do.

Hope this answers your question, not easy to do.

As an aside, going to keep working away and improving my 1200. Have to set a timeline for a strip to the frame and clean project - never done this before - like a challenge.
 

Rednaxs60

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Getting back to the thread issue. Have ordered an engine gasket set out of Ontario. Chose this one because it has the Gr/Gl gasket cover in the set, not usually included. Head gaskets are included but still intend to order OEM.

Have put together a spreadsheet to keep track of what I need, have on hand and want/need to order. These items need to be purchased:

91209-371-003 Cam Oil Seal
12251-MG9-000 Head Gasket
91216-PA0-003 Gr/Gl Cover Oil Seal
23131-463-003 Primary Chain
23114-MG9-000 Primary Damper Set

Parts on hand:

19200-MG9-681 Water Pump
Transmission/water pump gasket set
91305-426-003 Water PP Inlet O-ring
13011-MG9-000 Piston Ring Set - standard
90431-MG9-000 Clutch Nut Lock Washer
18291-286-306 Header Exhaust Gaskets
91201-MN5-003 Crank Front Oil Seal
91204-371-005 Engine Output Shaft Oil Seal
12391-MG9-000 Cover Gasket
11394-MG9-306 Rear Case Gasket

Mentioned doing a bearing spreadsheet. Next on my list of what I should do.

Con rod and crank bearings are going to be a challenge as I have mentioned. Brought to mind an engine my father had built for stock car racing in the '60s. He decided that he was going to build an engine that would be the bees knees on the track. The Achilles heel turned out to be the special pistons for the engine. Installed IAW and within two weeks melted the pistons. Manufacturer provide the wrong clearance specs. Dad was devastated. Have to be careful with this one.

Parts suggestions welcome.

Putting prices against the individual item. Being up here, costs add up. Expect the rebuild to be about $1500.00 to $2000.00 CDN. One could speculate that a used engine may be a better and less expensive way to go; however, a used 36 year old engine is a used 36 year old engine. Getting an FI engine is an issue, not many around - mostly in the US. Have to factor in availability, getting the engine, exchange, expensive proposition up here.

This is the year of projects, keep getting told to stay home, don't travel.

Cheers
 

Rednaxs60

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[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=217727#p217727:15el52aq said:
mcgovern61 » Today, 10:10 am[/url]":15el52aq]
:thanks: :good:
No worries. I'd recommend the '85 1200 LTD FI model anytime! Any thoughts on changing the primary chain and damper set?
 

Rednaxs60

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Putting everything on hand into a separate bin. Found some parts from the head refurb. Will catalogue as well. Talked to my brother and he expects I'll start this project sooner than later. He's probably right, depends on how the C-19 issue unfolds.
 

Rednaxs60

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Short update. Have ordered the primary chain and primary damper set. Have to use a cross border company, but it will be fine. Have a short buy list that I will be taking care of soon.

Thinking of the timeline/schedule - my brother's very prophetic. First on the list is to finish the painting of the 1500 parts and install. Couple/three weeks for this.

Next is the 1200 hydraulic valve shim check. If all is well might as well go straight into engine removal. A lot of the items to be removed are already off. If a shim of the valves is required, will put back together and do a test to see if there is a difference. July/August for engine removal. Life gets in the way sometimes and I do have two other bikes to ride. Want to do a tour around BC in August.

Have engine apart in September. Do all bearing and journal checks before complete disassembly. Want to identify the bearing colours sooner than later. Hoping the bearings are in reasonable condition. Honing of the cylinders is the only other expense. :beg:

So much for waiting.

Year of the Projects is off and running.
 

Rednaxs60

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Starting to read older threads on engine rebuilds. Bronko37 has a good thread on rebuilding a 1976 engine; viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10690, canuckxxxx has one and others as well. Lots of reading before I get going.

Checked the piston ring P/N for the 1100/1200. The P/N looks to be the same when you look at it. First number is the part, second is the bike model, third is the manufacturer. Keeping an eye out for alternatives.
 

Rednaxs60

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Took the 1200 for a last ride today, going to be starting the engine removal process. The bike is only on the road because of the YouTube video last Wednesday, now time to do the work/maintenance that I was going to and get at the engine. Changing my schedule a bit. Will be checking the hydraulic valves first, and will re-shim if required, but will continue on and remove the engine. Will not be putting it back together just to test if the valve(s) need shimming. Want to get it disassembled to determine what size journal and con rod bearings are installed.

Talked to my brother regarding the con rod and journal bearing sizes. He has better access to parts guys that may do some leg work regarding this than I do, he lives in northern Ontario, mining country. He has a good relationship with the local parts place, and is going to ask if there are equivalents out there, can't hurt to ask. Will be sending him the dimensions.

Checked with the local machine shop and to hone/remove glazing of the four holes is approximately $125.00 CDN. They will also mic the piston/cylinder wall dimensions to make sure these are in spec. He mentioned that if oversize rings are required, sourcing should not be an issue. He can't help with the con rod and journal bearings. I'm thinking the piston rings that Canuckxxxx used in his engine rebuild will work as well.

Part of the engine rebuild will be doing a fresh paint job. It is a gold metallic and brown paint scheme. On the panels that have both, Honda has used pinstripe tape to hide the interface between the two colours. The pin stripe tape is not clear coated as you can feel the edges and the pinstripe tape can be pulled off. The wind deflectors, mirror and saddlebag accents are painted with a gold colour from a spray can. Time to bring the paint colours under one roof.

A fellow who does work for the local brewery, sign painting and such, was recommended as a possible lead regarding the pinstripe. This fellow may not be able to help but gave me the names of other people to see regarding this. He did take a few pics of the bike, and mentioned that there are two different pinstripe tapes on the bike. Didn't notice this before. He also mentioned that there were two gold metal flake colours as well. I had noticed this after I bought the bike, and had a niggling feeling that I was not told the whole story of the bikes previous life. Too late after having bought, buyer beware and all. Even with this feeling, I have been able to make the bike mine and better than when I bought it. A fresh paint job will bring everything together as well.

My thoughts regarding the panels/fairings that have the two colours is that it will be possible to paint and have a clean line between the two colours, and at the same time continue to look for a suitable pin strip to suit.

More thoughts to follow.
 

julimike54

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Interesting on the pin stripe. Mine the pinstriping is under the clear coat....
 

mcgovern61

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The last engine I took apart was the '81 1100 engine we first put in the Slug to get her on the road back in 2008. I was an 1100 newbie and had no idea what the engine should sound like. Short of the story, I ran the engine for 2 years with a loud knocking sound. Turned out to be piston slap. I am not suggesting your 1200 engine has anything remotely like piston slap, but it does cause me to suggest to be sure you check the piston skirt clearances and wrist pin clearances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjnwxRwnU08

Thread on what I found:

viewtopic.php?p=56923#p56923
 

Rednaxs60

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More to follow on the pinstripe. Have done web searches and have found some pinstripe tape that may be acceptable. Have found a product called a pinstripe stencil. The stencil is applied to whatever, you paint between the lines and remove, not quite what I'm looking for but will consider if necessary.

Gerry - have watched your video. No sound coming from the engine. The engine has a rough idle when cold and goes away once the engine warms up to operating temp. Good for the rest of the day. On cold start lots of blue smoke out the back, and sometimes during the day as well. Very, very annoying. Time for a makeover. Will definitely find out.

Have to start a list of what clearances I should take. Lots recommended in the manual.

Most of the rebuild threads are of 1000/1100 engines. Haven't found a 1200 yet. Bronko37 has some good videos as does Aussigold. Looking at all information to better prepare.

Cheers
 

Rednaxs60

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More research being done. Thinking it would be good to get an inexpensive set of inside micrometers and a 2-3 inch outside micrometer - have a 0-1 inch. Definitely not machine shop standard, but for my purpose will do nicely. This and using plastigage should give me all the info needed.
 

pidjones

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They make "snap" gauges that you use to gauge the inside diameter, lock, then measure with a good outside micrometer. Pretty inexpensive (ebay) for an entire set. Accuracy as good as the outside micrometer and operator.
 
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