GL1200 Engine Rebuild

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Rednaxs60

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Another short day of working on the engine. Cleaned up the heads, and the front water pump cover. Used plastigauge on the con rod bearings, came in within spec; however, will have to replace the #1 bearing so will do all four.

Could renew the journal bearings but unable to get the bearing colour, "Black", for the front journal bearing. The "Brown" bearing insert thickness is 2.002 – 2.006 mm/0.0788 – 0.0790 inch. The "Black" bearing insert thickness is 2.006 – 2.010 mm/0.0790 – 0.0791 inch.

Had a good look at #1 con rod to see I could discern a bend, but could not. Machine shop will be asked.

Had ordered an inexpensive set of inside micrometers that were supposed to be here yesterday, but did not make it. Up to the machine shop to do.

Looked at the parts I have on hand and one of these is the oil seal for a 1500 front crank seal. This is the same size as the 1200 with an exception, there are directional arrows on each. The 1200 arrow is for clockwise rotation and the 1500 is counter clockwise. There are lines on the inner seal and the direction of these lines are for sealing purposes, and the 1500 and 1200 are opposite. This is a new concept at my age, but have found the 1200 oil seal on line.

Always something to consider.
 

TheRepoGuy

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I have a 12k mile limited motor down here in Georgia if you really are looking for one..slightly delayed on the post but I could put you in touch with the guy who owns it as he wants to get it sold


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Rednaxs60

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Thanks for reading and info on the engine. I think I saw your posts regarding helping your friend a while back. 12K engine would be great but being up here north of the 49th makes Georgia a long way off. Duty, shipping, exchange (0.32 cents on the dollar) and all the other cross border issues do make something like this an expensive proposition - I have to be realistic in that it would have to be a donated engine and look at the shipping. Would hate to see it meet the scrap yard. Thanks for the offer.

Will be taking the engine in this morning and depending on what the shop finds will make a decision. Pidjones mentioned that I need to look for the electronic components as it would be a shame to do all this work and have something small turn the bike into a boat anchor so to speak. Nice looking almost stock one in Ottawa for a good price, low Kms - 132K.
 

Rednaxs60

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Look what is following me home today - not the bike just the lift:
bike lift.jpg
Price was extremely good at, and it's manual and air. Not the HF or Princess Auto garden variety, very skookum. Enough of this working on the cement floor. Have one more lift to get, something like this:
Small Motorcycle lift.jpg
Now I'll have to get rid of my Big Blue Lift.
 

Rednaxs60

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Have sourced all the bearings. Getting the con rod bearings out of New Jersey - have to replace the one so all are going to be renewed. The Crank bearings are available in the Netherlands - will be ordering these this week. The crank shaft front oil seal that is directional will be ordered this week as well.
 

mcgovern61

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[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=217986#p217986:2ai7byii said:
Rednaxs60 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:24 am[/url]":2ai7byii]
Have sourced all the bearings. Getting the con rod bearings out of New Jersey - have to replace the one so all are going to be renewed.

Careful getting con rod bearings in New Jersey. I live in New Jersey! We only sell bearings for Goldwings that are Gold in color:


image.php


:smilie_happy: :smilie_happy:
 

Rednaxs60

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The Place I'm getting the con rod bearings from is Motorcycle Mall in Belleville. Only place in the US/Canada with these con rod bearings. the company is shipping them to a cross border broker in Blaine WA. Not a lot of shipping cost to Blaine and only $18.00 CDN to bring to Victoria. Hopefully customs will be having a good day when I talk to them.

Journal bearings and crank oil seal are on the way from the Netherlands.
 

Rednaxs60

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A good day all round. Making more room in the garage for the bike lift, modified the small work bench to accommodate, and on the suggestion of the Mrs no less. She doesn't work out there but wants me to have as much room as possible as long as her car fits in on her side every night, can't complain.

Had a call from the machine shop. Cylinders are good just need a honing. The con rods are straight, and pistons are in spec. They're fitting the rings and checking gaps. They will pressure wash the cases. Should have back by end next week. I'm willing to accept the shop doing some of the minor details with the engine bits while I progress other things here at home. The main item on my list now is painting the last few pieces for the 1500 - prepping for that now.
 

Rednaxs60

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Picked up the cases today:
Cylinder Halves Home.jpg
Shop mentioned that the cylinders were in good shape and the characteristic ridge that is generally at the top of the cylinder was not there, only had to hone the cylinders:
Honed Cylinders.jpg
Asked about the con rods - had them checked for any bends, none reported. Picked up the Honda head gaskets and some dowel pins. Checked the Honda gaskets against those that came with the engine gasket set. There are subtle differences such as the holes on the aftermarket gaskets don't quite line up with the OEM, the OEM cylinder hole is slightly smaller. This pic shows both:
Head Gasket 2.jpg
The OEM gasket has a wider steel cylinder ring than the aftermarket. This pic shows this - aftermarket gasket on top:
Head Gasket 4.jpg
Not a lot of difference. Used aftermarket gaskets when I had the heads done last year and the gaskets worked well.

Journal bearings came in today from Holland - one set Black, two sets Brown. Invoiced 18 June and arrived today, pretty good cross the pond service - 5 days:
New Journal Bearings.jpg
Plastigauge of new bearings is on the agenda.

Ordered the con rod bearings from New Jersey 17 June. Still have issues with the payment through PayPal. They sent the invoice, I paid it. They have yet to reconcile the issue on their end. Hopefully will be shipped tomorrow. Not that I need them immediately, but paid for the product and it's still not in transit. Should have ordered everything from Holland - they had the con rod bearings as well.

Will be painting the case. Shop pressure washed the outside, would not blast because some bearings were still in the case(s) and the shop did not want to get grit into these. Thinking it would be good to do before I put them together - cleaning done before the water wash paid off, only have to do minor sanding and use a scotchbrite pad. Degrease with SEM degreaser, doesn't leave any residue, then an aluminum colour paint. Will be checking other threads for paint recommendation.

Ordered a crank shaft front oil seal. The OEM part number 91201-MG9-005 was also 91201-MG9-003, but the 91201-MG9-003 appears to be supperceded by the -005 seal. The 91201-MG9-003 is the same size seal, but no direction markings. Why Honda would have two numbers for the same item is a mystery. Checked the other '85 GWs and these use the same oil seal.

Good day all round.
 

TheRepoGuy

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3159d1724963987a8664a4393af5c0af.jpg

Not to deviate too much off topic but I got mine to run and roll down the road this evening. Still have to put it back together but I can say one thing for certain; NEVER AGAIN will I buy an LTD or an SEi that is a basket case bike [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]


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pidjones

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Hope the con rod bearings don't end up a hassle and hold-up. It would be interesting to know the thickness of the Honda and aftermarket fire rings and body. Also, the 1000 fire rings aren't true round. Are the 1200's? Might be interesting to register the two with two dowels. Or, trace inside the two using two different color inks.
 

Rednaxs60

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Nice looking Limited Edition. It is a good ride when everything is taken care of. Hear you on the basket case, but I would. Bought one in Ottawa, Ontario in the fall of 2017 that had been in the back yard for four years, sorta covered, as a parts bike. Took it to my brother's in northern Ontario. Xmas 2017, went home, and decided that it would either start and maybe be a road bike, or strip it. Damn thing started - surprised the hell out of us, dropped to a good idle. May 2018, went back, did some work on it and rode it across Canada to Victoria. Didn't keep it, but had a great ride across Canada, and knew I could get one back on the road - fantastic experience. I had a couple of years under my belt regarding these models before I did this, and I had taken mine apart a few times - second one is easier.

Lots of work to do besides this engine. Have to finish painting the parts for the 1500, emptied an apartment, life issues, need to ride, never enough hours in a day. The con rod bearing issue will be solved, just have to be patient. No sense in my getting excited since I'm on the west coast and the shop is on the east. Taking it one day at a time. Thinking I might order a set from Holland and see which gets here first :smilie_happy: . May need a set for a different project down the road.

I see it's time for some engineering/scientific research. Can't hurt to have a detailed comparison. A small corner jig to hold the rings should do the trick. My understanding is there is the top compression ring, middle is the oil wiper ring that aids in compression and wipes excess oil off the cylinder walls, and the third is the oil scraper ring. You mention fire rings - ? On the list.

When I got the cases home, the shop had removed the transmission countershaft and carefully placed it in a box that opened so that the shaft was vertical. I reached in to take the shaft out and gearing started to fall off the shaft. Thankfully I did not move the shaft much and only two gears, C1 and output gears, came off the shaft. Looked in the manual, good detailed drawing, and put the shaft back together - gears only go in one way. Note to the collective - transmission countershaft when not installed can come apart very easily, from either end, without your assistance. Another learning point to be noted.

Cheers
 

Rednaxs60

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Update on the con rod bearings. Just talked to the shop, payment received and 8 bearing shells in mail. Using a cross border brokerage in Blaine WA so shipping is to a US address and this is very quick. If using the post through to Canada, the Canadian side slows the shipping down. More to follow.
 

Rednaxs60

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Checked the compression and oil wiper ring thickness. OEM 6 at 1.16 mm, 2 at 1.17 mm. All aftermarket at 1.16 mm. The new rings have a lot more spring in them. Here are pics of the compression and oil wiper rings. The aftermarket rings are placed on top of the OEM rings. The arrow points to the shiny area from the OEM rings under the aftermarket rings: Compression Ring:
Compression ring.jpg
Oil wiper ring:
Oil Wiper Ring.jpg
The OEM rings have compressed and have a "set" that cannot be removed or changed no matter how much the engine is used. Think it was a good idea to hone the cylinders and replace the rings. Will have to buy some standard mineral oil for the break in period, then switch back to synthetic. Probably do 3000 to 5000 Kms with mineral oil.
 

Rednaxs60

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Banner day today. Con rod bearings arrived. Customs guys were good, stamped the docs and said have a good day. Good timing as well. Finished painting the last few pieces for the 1500, will install first of next week, let sit for the weekend, then on to the 1200 engine rebuild and paint project. Everything is coming together.
 

Rednaxs60

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Been doing some roof leak repair around a skylight the past couple of days, should be finished tomorrow. Getting at some minor cleaning/polishing of items. Did the valve covers tonight. I had done these a year or so ago when I had the heads done. Did a wet sand with 2000/2500/3000 then a polishing compound, followed by Flitz polishing compound and Protectorant. Came out pretty good, nothing like polished aluminum:
VV Cover 1.jpg
All parts that I did the last time will get the same treatment before install. Have one case and the covers cleaned and stripped for painting. Will get at the last casing over the next couple of days. Intend to use zinc chromate on the cases, bare aluminum, maybe an epoxy primer then paint with Dupli Color 1615 Aluminum.

Once the painting is done, on to the engine assembly.
 

Rednaxs60

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Have decided, vapour blasting it is, will get into areas that I cannot even with the paint stripper. Only 6 pieces to do. I will do the thermostat housing and water pump inlet pieces.

There are two bearings that need replacing. The one on the end of the alternator shaft, and the end of final shaft. Neither rotates, so what has been happening is the shafts have been taking the brunt of these rotating parts. Not a lot of oil getting to these bearings. Taking in to have bearings removed tomorrow. Bearings should be available aftermarket.
 

Rednaxs60

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Update on the vapor blasting. Interesting concept and product. Found out he lives and does this vapor blasting less than 3 Kms from where I live. Took the 6 main pieces in this afternoon, 3 day turn around. Had a good discussion with the owner. Mentioned that I would be painting the pieces. We had a discussion regarding this, and he mentioned that vapor blasting does not require you to paint afterwards. He recommended using a protectorant such as ACF-50. I researched ACF-50 and it is used in the air industry to prevent corrosion on fuselage and electrical/electronic components. It is getting quite the name in the motorcycle industry as well. I have used the Flitz Protectorant and think it is a similar and just as good product. After seeing the end result, I came home and found all the other little bits that can be done so that all the pieces match. Will deliver tomorrow after I give these additional pieces a good cleaning. If I do not have to paint any pieces, the cost for the vapor blasting becomes very reasonable considering the time, and cost to paint. After this work is completed will take the casings to the machine shop to have two bearings taken out and new ones installed. Here is a PDF file for info: View attachment ACF50 Motorcycles_Hints & Tips.pdf

As an aside, he had two older Nortons in his yard along with several other unusual bikes. A third Norton is in his workshop being restored. Will get pictures if he will let me. He mentioned that he thinks he knows where there are two '85 Limited Edition bikes owned by the same person. Interesting.
 
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