Lets do some Honda lock exploring.

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saganaga

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Browsing around on the local Facebook marketplace, I found a person selling a full Hondaline rack and luggage. Picked it up today.

But it appears to be a bit of a Frankenstein with keys - the top box isn't keyed the same as the sides. One of the rack locks is also missing a cylinder.

Time to investigate! First thing is that the keys seem to be similar to my ignition key - a bit shorter, but my ignition key does fit the lock. This shows promise.

Since this is going to be a picture-heavy post, I'll divide it into two parts for now - the first is getting access to the lock cylinders.

Lets take a look at a luggage lock. Oh look, there's a C-clip!

IMG_20211013_163432549.jpg


Pop that off, then the piece underneath, and the lock falls out of the cylinder. Nice! Making progress. Inserting the key the lock is made for shows that it moves the wafers down and out of position, allowing the cylinder to turn.

IMG_20211013_163513298.jpg


Inserting my ignition key shows why it doesn't work:

IMG_20211013_163618329 (1).jpg


So time to do some more investigation. Pulled out one of the wafers, which looks like this:

IMG_20211013_163657452.jpg


So I played around with the wafers some, and I could get two wafers in a position where my ignition key would work. Not more than that. I think I want something better. But if I'm going to rekey these, I want the locks on the rack and the luggage locks to match.

Time to see if I can access the luggage lock mechanism! With the luggage removed, there's two screws that are accessible. Note: A spring in the locking mechanism pushes the lock apart once both screws are removed - be prepared!

IMG_20211013_164154751 (1).jpg


Removal shows the retaining mechanism - note the spring pushing it apart:

IMG_20211013_164346995 (1).jpg


With it removed from the rack, the locking part kinda just falls outs:

IMG_20211013_170118976_HDR.jpg


Now the pin is a press fit. I was a little hesitant to remove it from the working rack lock I had, but I did have the broken rack lock as well. Let me take a closer look at that one and compare it to the good lock:

IMG_20211013_165145219.jpg


Well, I think I can see why the lock cylinder was removed - the plastic centering piece is broken - the lock probably jammed at one time. I'm going to assume the plastic is fragile, and I will just take apart the broken locking mechanism to prove I can.

A pair of pliers will remove the retaining pin:

IMG_20211013_170532699.jpg


Presumably if this one had a lock cylinder, the lock cylinder would fall out at this point.
 

saganaga

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So next part - finding the wafers. No sense in doing the disassembly until I can rekey these.

Lets think - top box has three locks keyed alike (two on the box, one on the rack) - that's key #1. Side bags are keyed alike as well, with two locks keyed alike on each bag, and one for the rack lock, so six locks total that uses key #2. And the Goldwing itself has three locks keyed alike (ignition, glovebox, and helmet).

I'm going to have to rekey at least six locks. I'm thinking I'll keep the original keys and just rekey 9 locks.

I also need to find a replacement lock cylinder and locking mechanism for the broken locking mechanism on the rack. (Hey, any of you have a Hondaline rack lock you are trying to get rid of? If not, I need to visit the motorcycle junk yard.)

Some googling turned up this promising PDF. Too bad it seems to refer to an out-of-date keying kit no longer made.

[Removed PDF - wrong one]

But that still provides some clues. I'm not going to guess on the east Asian conglomerates, but I'm pretty sure Chrysler never made a motorcycle, nor did GM. (Kia apparently did until 1962!) If these were used in GM vehicles


So here's where I'm at now. Trying to find these stupid things. Lets see - five wafers per lock, nine locks total, so I'm going to need a good supply.

Or else I need to contact a local locksmith and see what they can do, but I'm guessing that's spendier than I would like.

Edit: I'm now thinking it's the A-19-101 kit that's needed. See my post later in the thread.
 
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mcgovern61

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I have a used Hondaline rack lock with a key (515) left over in my parts bin. $10 plus shipping?
 

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mcgovern61

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FYI, I re-keyed all of my locks to a single key by pulling all of the wafers and resetting them to the one key. I needed one more wafer and discovered that if you leave a wafer out of the end (tip) you can get away with fewer wafers. You only need enough wafers to make the lock turn.
 

saganaga

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I have a used Hondaline rack lock with a key (515) left over in my parts bin. $10 plus shipping?
Sure. PM sent.
FYI, I re-keyed all of my locks to a single key by pulling all of the wafers and resetting them to the one key. I needed one more wafer and discovered that if you leave a wafer out of the end (tip) you can get away with fewer wafers. You only need enough wafers to make the lock turn.
I was looking at that last night, and I think the wafers for the side bags are going to be completely unusable since the key is very different.

I could file them down to fit - it would mean a lot of keys would open the lock, which isn't a huge concern, but that's still plan B at this point.

I didn't get around to calling a locksmith today. There's an ebay listing I'm looking at for lock wafers that specifically states it isn't for ignition locks, but dang the wafers look close. I may do some more measuring and then take a gamble on that.
 
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[email protected]

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I thought about doing this re-key job on my '81 as well, but the lock & blank used for the removable bags is so different from the bike key,
I came to the same conclusion and left my bag locks the way they came, also. Unfortunately, I only have the 1 original bag key, and have not been able to find a matching one online anywhere.
My Silverwing Interstate, on the other hand, had all the locks the same from the factory, so re-keying a spare lock from a parts bike isn't too difficult.
 

saganaga

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So here's where I'm at. Information on rekeying 40 year old motorcycles isn't easy to find.

However, I'm finding a lot of information that states Honda uses a 3-wafer system in other bikes at that time. Honda used to sell a rekeying kit for around $20 to rekey a lock. Which, even if they still do (I didn't check) gets expensive fast.

Before I pulled the trigger, I wanted to be more confident in what was needed. So what's the most bog-standard, boring lock on a Goldwing that's probably similar to locks used on the Hondaline bags? My guess is the glovebox lock. I looked up the part number, and found that it was used on Hondas for over a decade.

Including the 1990 Goldwing. Which the National Locksmith covered in it's April 2000 issue. Beautiful article btw, if you have a GL1500 and need to remove a lock.

But the part I found fascinating was:

honda_locks.PNG


(Btw, notice the error? That's a 32311 lock code, not a 32331 lock code.)

That cylinder wafer configuration, plus the wafers, looks similar to what I have:



IMG_20211015_202601476.jpg


So guys, I'm going for it.

I found what appears to be a legitimate business that sells the A-19-101 kit. I'm going to see if will sell it to me - they may not, since I had to put down my occupation, and I put down 'other' and 'classic motorcycle owner' for the explanation. The system did take my order.

Cross your fingers.
 

saganaga

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Thanks. I sent the payment.

Did some more lock exploration, and I don't like what I'm finding. The key for my ignition seems to have three depths for the notches, but I'm finding it works best if I have two depths of wafers.

Before proceeding further, I decided to order a new key cut to code off an eBay seller I've used in the past. I'm not sure if my original key is just worn, or if it does have two depths.
 

[email protected]

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I think the purpose of that was to have different levels of security on different locks on the same bike. The Ignition lock uses all available wafer slots, seven maybe?, but the trunk, bag, & glove box locks uses the fewest wafers, hence, lower security level, and the gas cap and radio face use 5 maybe? My 82 Silverwing has 12 factory locks, and maybe they wanted to save a little on production costs. Is that what you're referring to, or am I just babbling on again? Lol!

I do think the code cut keys do work better than the grinder-cut duplicates, however.
 

saganaga

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My curiosity got the better of me, and I tore apart the lock on the side case (different lock number than the trunk) and found that the side case lock does have the silver-colored wafer as the #2.

Here's the silver wafer from the trunk and the side case compared.

IMG_20211022_152734904_HDR.jpg


Also, boy are these locks gummy. I was browsing a few locksmith sites, and they just some soapy water is good for cleaning a lock if the lock is dissassembled. For lubricants, triflow seems liked by many, and I do happen to have some in my garage.

I also did do some calculations and decided that I'd probably need only the #3 wafers regardless of what interpretation I go with to decode my old worn ignition key. So I am attempting to buy some wafers. Lets see if this time is more successful.
 
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saganaga

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I took apart McGovern's lock and took some pictures.

Plastic lock cylinder, which explains why the one on my rack was broken and I found plastic pieces. I wonder if this part could be 3D printed. If I knew more, I could take measurements, but I'm not sure if someone wants figures from me reading a vernier caliper.

IMG_20211023_171558136 (1).jpg


I put everything in a bowl of water and some Dawn dishwasher detergent to remove grease. Rinsed the larger parts, and soaked the smaller parts and springs in rubbing alcohol afterwards to remove any soapy water. I polished the wafers with some fine sandpaper to get the hard crud off. Note the key profile wafer in the picture - no spring on it, just pry it out with a tool.

IMG_20211023_185431638.jpg



I ran the dirty soapy water through a filter to make sure nothing was missed. Filter got pretty dirty.

IMG_20211023_195940303.jpg


I have successfully ordered a lock rekeying kit for Hondas. That should come next week.

I also took a caliper to the four (!) different Goldwing keys I have. I'm getting some very odd readings for my ignition key. Can't wait for the cut-to-code key to arrive, so I can measure that. One of the "bumps" on my ignition key doesn't match any other key - considering these are supposed to have three wafer heights, and that the other three Honda keys that I have seem to fall within those three heights, I'm a little confused.

I'm almost tempted to take apart the ignition or the glovebox lock to measure it, but with how old these bikes are, and the fact that the locks never gave me any issues, I'd rather let sleeping dogs lie. Turning the bike on and filling it with gas is rather important.

One other note - I was thinking of replacing the Vetter lock with a Honda-compatible lock to rekey it (my goal is still one-key-to-rule-them-all). The locks on most of the Honda fairings seem to be same as the glovebox lock, which may not work. However, the trunk lock looks promising. Too bad the eBay offerings are priced around $40 right now.
 
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saganaga

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I have solved the issue of why some of my measurements seem off.

Measuring cut-to-cut for each of the notches of the four keys I have, then using that number to calculate key depth, I found the depths for most of my keys clustered around a few measurements:

7.0mm, 6.5mm, 6mm, and 5.5mm.

Which confused me considering that everything I'm seeing says there's only 3 depth options. Even the Honda rekeying kit I found from the early 1980s had three depths of wafers.

I graphed the numbers I was getting, just in case I was missing something, and I saw four clusters form.

Then I found this:

Honda_Keys.png


The keys appear to be identical between 1982 and 1983, but the depths change.

I have a mix of 1982 and 1983 keyings going on - the trunk and the matching lock is a 1983+. While everything else is 1982. Including my ignition (makes sense, since it is a 1982 Goldwing).

The rekeying kit I picked up is apparently for a 1983+. Argh!

When I was test fitting, I didn't catch the problem due to poor lock tolerances. But when I do this for real, I think I'll do some slight filing on the lock wafers to ensure smooth operation. The 1983+ #2 wafer needs about 0.2mm taken off one end to match the earlier #2, and 0.3mm taken off the other side to match the earlier #3 wafer. The 1983+ #3 wafer needs 0.1mm taken off to match the earlier #4 wafer - problem well within the margin of tolerance for these locks, but I'll take out the file regardless.

This should work out.

Just a note, but with my small sample size, all my 1982 & earlier locks have a three digit key code. While the only 1983 key I have starts with the letter "A". I'm wondering if that denotes the shift from the 1977 to 1982 keying scheme to the 1983+ keying scheme.
 
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saganaga

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I may be repeating myself, but here's the summary. I will report this experiment a success.

Here's the rekeying kit I picked up. Technically for 1983+ GL1100s, but I made it work.

IMG_20211030_233451865.jpg

IMG_20211030_233506687.jpg


I found the kit on eBay, but if you are looking for a source, https://www.locksco.com/home did ship some extra tumblers to me. The kit is $67 there.

To be honest, if it wasn't for the poor luck I had in wafer sizes (I had a ton on one end in a lot of my locks, and I needed a bunch of another type), I'd just skip ordering a kit and just reorder the tumblers you have, filing as needed to fit.

As I reported before, wash with soapy water and an old toothbrush, rinse with water, then I dried and rinsed again with rubbing alcohol, figuring the alcohol would displace any remaining water and quickly evaporate. If you are not doing this inside, I'd suggest something stronger - these old locks are gummy. I skipped the alcohol rinse for the plastic tumblers - I don't know what sort of plastic it is or how it would react to anything other than water.

To the left, the key fits the lock. To the right, is a key that doesn't fit the lock. Sorry for the poor quality picture, but the "proper" key fits somewhat poorly - the tumblers stick out perhaps a tenth of a millimeter or so sometimes.

IMG_20211030_214536711_HDR.jpg


I reordered tumblers where I could, then took the closest size I could find from the kit. I used the new cut key to test. If it stuck out too far, I took a file to take off a bit, then sanded the filed end, rinsed any dust off, then retested the fit.

Once it looked good, I tested both sides of the new key, as well as both sides of my original factory key.

I did all tests without any lubrication in the lock.

Once everything was good, I lubricated each tumbler spring with a drop of triflow, then reassembled the lock, using a drop of oil on either side of either end of the tumbler. Then I tested with both sides of both keys.

Everything works fine - no hesitation or catching. While the "wrong" keys won't work. Nor can I rotate it by a screwdriver. That's good - it'll prevent a latch from accidentally opening on the highway.

My ignition key now operates all the luggage locks and luggage mounting locks - that's nine locks in total. Plus the ignition key still operates the ignition, false tank lock, and helmet lock - so twelve locks in total. I went from four Honda keys needed to one.

I still have the Vetter fairing right pocket lock to deal with. That's the only other key on my keychain. I've spent far too many hours looking at used vintage Honda locks on eBay across their scooter/motorcycle/automobile line, and not having a ton of luck. I may just throw the Vetter's key in my glovebox. I usually use that compartment for my emergency kit anyways - some tire plugs, a small bicycle travel pump, and the tool roll. So it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
 
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