My aftermarket ignition appears to be dead.

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skiri251

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Okay, so here's a thread for my aftermarket ignition problem.
I guess it's better than hijacking totally unrelated thread.

Here's the chronology.

1. My Oldwing was left in a garage for a few months.
2. I turned the ignition ON, Fuel pump worked. Neutral light ON.
3. Pushed the starter button and one click sound then nothing (no neutral light.)
4. Disconnect and load tested the battery (6 year old). 0V under load.
5. Put the new battery in. Engine turned over fine but no sign of fuel igniting.
6. Removed the spark plugs and confirmed no spark.
7. I have relays for ignition and headlight, so I swapped them.
8. Still no spark.

Today I finally got enough motivation to test it further.

I bypassed everything and connected a jumper cable from battery + terminal to the red wire which goes to the coil and the ignition module.
I also cut the ring terminal of the ground wire coming from the ignition module and connected it to battery - terminal with alligator clips. (Just in case the connection went bad when I replaced the battery even though it is soldered.)

[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212322#p212322:r06y726u said:
DaveKamp » Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:43 am[/url]":r06y726u]
better yet... put a known-good jumper wire from battery to your ignition module and see fi you get spark... I'll bet you do!
There already is this ground wire coming directly from the ignition module as described above. Replacing it or adding a new wire will require engine removal.

And... still no spark.
So unless something mechanical went bad (like sensor disc came loose) coinciding the battery gone dead, I have to conclude it's ignition module itself.

Is there anything else I can do before removing the engine?
 

dan filipi

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Check wiring all the way back to the coil, and that the plug into the coil is in tight. I'd even plug and unplug it a few times to clean the contacts.
Follow all the ignition wires to check nothing got damaged in any way.
 

joedrum

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Hmmmm.... ok this is one of those 1100 in the rear ignition set ups ....hmmm I’m thinking will post later
 

skiri251

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[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212536#p212536:amu41nqj said:
dan filipi » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:21 am[/url]":amu41nqj]
Check wiring all the way back to the coil, and that the plug into the coil is in tight. I'd even plug and unplug it a few times to clean the contacts.
Follow all the ignition wires to check nothing got damaged in any way.

Did all the above but still no spark.
I checked the voltage between black and red wires and it was 12.6V.

The connector (plug) will not come loose by itself because there is a built-in lock.

The cable from the ignition module is in a protective sheath I bought with the ignition unit and it is routed along the frame.
It's hard to image that the cable somehow got damaged while sitting in a garage.
The only thing I did was to replace the battery.
 

saganaga

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Have you checked all spark plugs, or just one?

And does everything else work - lights, horn, turn signals, etc?

Here's my thoughts - at least for my '82 standard Goldwing, there are two coils. Doubt that both of them would go bad at once. Checking the schematic, each coil (at least in the GL1100) is driven by a separate spark unit. Again, doubt both of those would go bad at once.

So if you have no spark on any plug, it is probably something shared by both coils. Which seems to be:

1. Connector for the ignition coils
2. Connector for the pickup coils
3. Pickup coil itself
4. The engine stop switch
5. The connector for the engine stop switch/starter button/front brake switch. (The latter has to be connected, since the starter button works, but it could have corrosion on one of the two pins for the engine stop switch).

If I'm reading the diagram correctly, power is split from the black starter button wire (after #5), goes through the engine run switch (#4), and through a connector (#1) to each ignition coil. Looks like a black wire to the run switch, and a black/white wire afterwards. That should be all 12V.

Separately, to control the spark, the ignition coils are connected (#1 again), via a wire to each spark unit. Each spark unit is connected (#2) to the pickup coil (#3). Each spark plug unit also has a ground.

I'm the sort of person who doesn't really want to pull an engine unless I have to. So I'd have my multimeter out and doublecheck all the wiring first.

Btw, I'm not seeing a red wire running to the ignition coils, spark units, or pick coils. The only solid red wire I'm seeing on the schematic goes to the ignition switch.


Nevermind. Can't read.
 

joedrum

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That’s cause he has a c5 ignition on the rear of the motor ...hmmm ...the c5 is a completely independent system ...if you hook the red wire to battery and also hook the ground wire to battery ...and turn it over to check spark with all plugs out of motor and it still doesn’t spark ..its motor out time ...with your set up ...like any 1100 motor the rear ignition was a terrible spot to put the ignition on a oldwing ...I’m thinking if hook directly to battery hot and ground you will get spark is my bet ...
 

saganaga

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[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212547#p212547:2qncylnn said:
joedrum » 3 minutes ago[/url]":2qncylnn]
That’s cause he has a c5 ignition on the rear of the motor ...hmmm ...the c5 is a completely independent system ...if you hook the red wire to battery and also hook the ground wire to battery ...and turn it over to check spark with all plugs out of motor and it still doesn’t spark ..its motor out time ...with your set up ...like any 1100 motor the rear ignition was a terrible spot to put the ignition on a oldwing ...I’m thinking if hook directly to battery hot and ground you will get spark is my bet ...

Well, I'm an idiot. :head bang: I somehow missed "aftermarket".
 

skiri251

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[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212547#p212547:4mbr3dud said:
joedrum » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:28 pm[/url]":4mbr3dud]
That’s cause he has a c5 ignition on the rear of the motor ...hmmm ...the c5 is a completely independent system ...if you hook the red wire to battery and also hook the ground wire to battery ...and turn it over to check spark with all plugs out of motor and it still doesn’t spark ..its motor out time ...with your set up ...like any 1100 motor the rear ignition was a terrible spot to put the ignition on a oldwing ...I’m thinking if hook directly to battery hot and ground you will get spark is my bet ...

Well that's what I did.
Jumper from battery+ to red and jumper from battery- to black.

I guess it's time to remove the engine.
 

joedrum

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Sheesh it could still be something simple but it’s hard to check anything else till motor out to get at it sheesh
 

brianinpa

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Mine is doing something very similar. I tested everything and eventually sent it back to Paul to test it. I think he sent it back to PowerArc - I've been told the ignition is good, but Paul is fixing some wiring issues I also had. It should be coming back to me soon then I can check all of the bikes wiring.
 

skiri251

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[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212553#p212553:1tg0341t said:
joedrum » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:42 pm[/url]":1tg0341t]
Sheesh it could still be something simple but it’s hard to check anything else till motor out to get at it sheesh

Yes. This ignition placement of GL1100 really sucks..
 

DaveKamp

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Before you pull it all apart:

Connect your ignition system to a SEPARATE battery, and then crank it with the main battery.

Why?

Because the cranking current is high. With the starter motor cranking, it WILL draw system voltage down enough so that bad wiring at ANY point, will cause voltage and current to be severely limited elsewhere. Using separate batteries between cranking and ignition, will prove wether your C5 is damaged, and wether your engine actually needs to be pulled.
 

skiri251

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[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212564#p212564:3oj543fh said:
DaveKamp » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:04 pm[/url]":3oj543fh]
Before you pull it all apart:

Connect your ignition system to a SEPARATE battery, and then crank it with the main battery.

Why?

Because the cranking current is high. With the starter motor cranking, it WILL draw system voltage down enough so that bad wiring at ANY point, will cause voltage and current to be severely limited elsewhere. Using separate batteries between cranking and ignition, will prove wether your C5 is damaged, and wether your engine actually needs to be pulled.

Tried that.
Still no spark.
 

skiri251

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Engine out.
Ignition module off.

IMG_20190908_123027.jpg

IMG_20190908_123044.jpg


The disc is NOT loose.
Everything looks okay.
IMG_20190908_123457.jpg

IMG_20190908_124011.jpg

IMG_20190908_124109.jpg


I guess I should send it back for analysis too.
 

joedrum

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[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212580#p212580:197i9bgr said:
joedrum » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:42 pm[/url]":197i9bgr]
Hmmm I guess it’s looking that way ....

Be careful with the shaft there on the crank ..the drive pin likes to fall out there on 1100s..if that falls out the shaft doesn’t spin and of course it can make spark not fire ...not saying that’s the problem just don’t let pin fall out now the shaft is loose
 

skiri251

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[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212581#p212581:8ctzzb29 said:
joedrum » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:46 pm[/url]":8ctzzb29]
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212580#p212580:8ctzzb29 said:
joedrum » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:42 pm[/url]":8ctzzb29]
Hmmm I guess it’s looking that way ....

Be careful with the shaft there on the crank ..the drive pin likes to fall out there on 1100s..if that falls out the shaft doesn’t spin and of course it can make spark not fire ...not saying that’s the problem just don’t let pin fall out now the shaft is loose

Thanks.
It just fell out but I found it okay.
 

skiri251

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[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212582#p212582:2xbn0hmm said:
dan filipi » Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:41 pm[/url]":2xbn0hmm]
Not looking very promising is it. I’d connect it to power then rotate the disk with the bolt loosened. See if the light comes on.

Well I had enough of testing...
Will just install stock iginition and see how it goes.
 

Omega Man

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:popcorn: If we all had a nickle for Iggy threads here we'd have a whole lot o' nickles. Oh and I guess I'm not THAT rusty after all. My first thought was "what kind of aftermarket ignition is it?" I thought for sure it was going to be a Dyna. I don't remember many folks having problems with the C5.

~O~
 

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