My aftermarket ignition appears to be dead.

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skiri251

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The thing is the stock ignition was working fine before I switched to aftermarket.
My '78 XS750 still got stock CDI ignition with mechanical advance and it's been working fine.

So maybe the moral of the story is good old "Don't touch it if it ain't broken."

EDIT:

I just saw your thread. Welcome back Mr. O.
 

mcgovern61

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[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212685#p212685:2yly99du said:
skiri251 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:34 am[/url]":2yly99du]
The thing is the stock ignition was working fine before I switched to aftermarket.
My '78 XS750 still got stock CDI ignition with mechanical advance and it's been working fine.

So maybe the moral of the story is good old "Don't touch it if it ain't broken."

:hihihi: I know the feeling! Other than my 1982 1100, I have a 1956 Chris Craft with her original 1956 engine. 6 volt system with points and condensor and mechanical flyweights in the distributor for spark advance. Many folks have pulled the points and added a "Pertronix" ignition. Funny part of the story? All of those folks recommend "carrying a set of points and a condensor with you" if the ignition fails! (And they do)

I am not a purists by any means. But I did clean and rebuild my distributor. Had to manufacture a few parts myself, but those old points and condensor are working great! :ahem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HonYLAQNrI

 

skiri251

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Wow. Looks like really nice boat even though I haven't had privilege to play with those things.

My '71 BSA's mechanical advance bore worn out and caused ignition problem.
I could see the timing was all over the place with strobe light.
So I replaced it with Boyer Electronic Ignition.

BSA had similar battery failure (died while riding, 0V under load) but luckily Boyer EI survived.
Not sure because it is rather classic analog design unlike the one for GL1100.
 

Omega Man

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[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212685#p212685:3f110v68 said:
skiri251 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:34 am[/url]":3f110v68]
I just saw your thread. Welcome back Mr. O.

Thanks man. I now remember you got the C5, and I'm bummed that you are still having electrical problems with your Wing. Sometimes the more things change the more they stay the same. I hope you get this figured out! :beg:

~O~
 

saganaga

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[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212686#p212686:u4hffmcl said:
mcgovern61 » Today, 9:59 am[/url]":u4hffmcl]
:hihihi: I know the feeling! Other than my 1982 1100, I have a 1956 Chris Craft with her original 1956 engine. 6 volt system with points and condensor and mechanical flyweights in the distributor for spark advance. Many folks have pulled the points and added a "Pertronix" ignition. Funny part of the story? All of those folks recommend "carrying a set of points and a condensor with you" if the ignition fails! (And they do)

Got a Honda moped with a 6V system and points. Never had an electrical problem with the points, and they have to be 40 years old now.

The ignition is (thankfully) very tolerant of voltage spikes, which is great, since there's no voltage regulation outside of the battery.
 

brianinpa

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[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212685#p212685:216pfsxq said:
skiri251 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:34 am[/url]":216pfsxq]
The thing is the stock ignition was working fine before I switched to aftermarket.
My '78 XS750 still got stock CDI ignition with mechanical advance and it's been working fine.

So maybe the moral of the story is good old "Don't touch it if it ain't broken."

Mine was broken on my 87, so it made perfect sense to swap the ignition from my 81 1200 over to my 87 1200. I fear that my problem is in the bike's wiring. :head bang:
 

skiri251

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[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212715#p212715:3q6abyc3 said:
brianinpa » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:42 am[/url]":3q6abyc3]
[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212685#p212685:3q6abyc3 said:
skiri251 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:34 am[/url]":3q6abyc3]
The thing is the stock ignition was working fine before I switched to aftermarket.
My '78 XS750 still got stock CDI ignition with mechanical advance and it's been working fine.

So maybe the moral of the story is good old "Don't touch it if it ain't broken."

Mine was broken on my 87, so it made perfect sense to swap the ignition from my 81 1200 over to my 87 1200. I fear that my problem is in the bike's wiring. :head bang:

Yes it makes perfect sense. Even going with the latest aftermarket one too.
So you can adapt 81 ignition to 87. W/o any mod?

I fear my 82 stock ignition (or wiring) may fail in the future..
OTOH '78 XS750 is still alive and kicking even though she spent the previous life in a salvage yard.

As for '71 BSA, I could have gone with a new mechanical advance unit keeping the points but it costed ~$400 while Boyer EI was only $120.
 

brianinpa

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[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212719#p212719:1k9s3t3j said:
skiri251 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:17 pm[/url]":1k9s3t3j]
[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212715#p212715:1k9s3t3j said:
brianinpa » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:42 am[/url]":1k9s3t3j]
[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212685#p212685:1k9s3t3j said:
skiri251 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:34 am[/url]":1k9s3t3j]
The thing is the stock ignition was working fine before I switched to aftermarket.
My '78 XS750 still got stock CDI ignition with mechanical advance and it's been working fine.

So maybe the moral of the story is good old "Don't touch it if it ain't broken."

Mine was broken on my 87, so it made perfect sense to swap the ignition from my 81 1200 over to my 87 1200. I fear that my problem is in the bike's wiring. :head bang:

Yes it makes perfect sense. Even going with the latest aftermarket one too.
So you can adapt 81 ignition to 87. W/o any mod?

I fear my 82 stock ignition (or wiring) may fail in the future..
OTOH '78 XS750 is still alive and kicking even though she spent the previous life in a salvage yard.

As for '71 BSA, I could have gone with a new mechanical advance unit keeping the points but it costed ~$400 while Boyer EI was only $120.

When I took the 1100 motor out of the 81 bike, I put an 84 1200 motor in and made my 81 1200 and the ignition mounted the same way. When I moved the ignition to my 87, I mounted the ignition on the back of the left head, so I had to get it reprogrammed to turn at the speed of the cam shaft and not the speed of the crank shaft. When I did all of my testing when it quit, everything was telling me the coil pack was bad: no spark. I had the red light on the ignition module, I had power going in and out of the ignition module and power going into the coil, but no spark. That's why I sent it to Paul.

He found a few issues but everything was working correctly. I started thinking again of what I was doing the day it quit on me, and I think it is in the kill switch... now if I just had the time to get out in the shop to look at it. More to follow when I get the ignition back and some time to work on it.
 

DaveKamp

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So, there's many types of ignition systems, and they all do the same thing... they just do it in different ways.

I like them ALL... but they all have their strengths, and weaknesses.

First and foremost, battery-coil mechanicals... they wear. Springs fatigue, both from time, motion, and finally... current (some points systems actually transmit coil current THROUGH THE SPRING... bad idea, as this heats, and make the spring amazingly flaccid pronto. Contacts get pitted, oily, or fouled up with carbon as a result of condensation, moisture, and oil mist that finds it's way up the distributor shaft from the crankcase (keep good PCV!). The distributor shaft bushing (in distributor base) can wear, causing the shaft to 'orbit' the inside of the dizzy, causing lousy contact operation and unstable ignition. The distributor drive gears can get worn, causing the shaft to vibrate. Where the shaft shares oil pump drive, oiling issues (like aereation) can cause same. A worn or sticky advance mechanism causes idling and other performance problems. Extremely high RPM results in too-short-a-dwell time at the points, so ignition energy drops off, and contact points bounce or lag in rebound, causing misfires at high speed. Too long a dwell time (like, key left on, engine not running) will cook the points and coil quickly. Condensers degrade, and eventually drift out-of-range, or flat out fail.

Distributor caps get moisture and dirt, carbon tracking, rotor wear, etc., and the towers degrade from elemental exposure and HV, they leak down the towers, burn up the rubber, etc.,


With distributor-fitted electronics, alot of those problems go away... but solid-state electronics are susceptible to get 'bit' by high voltage transients and high-frequency... which happens to be exactly what ignition coils are trying to DO...

There's several types of triggering... hall effect (magnetic), optical (visible or UV), and some are just repeating amplifiers triggered by contact points. Hall effect triggers don't like intense magnetic fields (that's what they're triggered by) and really high voltage transients. Optical sensors don't like dirt, oil, 'n other optically-gloppy stuff... but they both work really well when they're clean, and not subjected to nasty electrical things like... poorly grounded coil circuits. IF they fire when the distributor is between towers, they result in backfire-farty running antics, damaged carbeurator stuff, mufflers... and of course, the voltage under open-circuit situation can skyrocket, and come back to bite the trigger/amp module.

Distributorless systems get off a bit easier, not having the cap/rotor issue makes many possible problems go away.

Coil primary circuit amplifiers (usually MOSFETs) don't like getting zapped or reverse polarity... so it takes some judicious snubbing and reverse-polarity protection to make 'em survive what points don't even notice.

I like magnetos with impulsers, too...
 

joedrum

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I can’t remember what the problem was but I got rid off the relays I had on my bike ....I think it was not staying engaged and switching off and on ...making the ignition cut out ...I’m thinking when the c5 gets this condition just right it can wipe the memory out ...and as soon as I figured out the relay was the problem I took mine out completely and the c5 was fine ...I’m betting the relay took your c5 out and needs reprogram ...have you tried to talk to Paul on this ...
At the time I lived on gravel and bumpy roads and and I’m thinking the relays couldn’t handle the shock going on in the low voltage magnetic switch arrangement ...mines been-strait wired ever since
 

skiri251

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[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212950#p212950:17vsqpp2 said:
joedrum » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:37 am[/url]":17vsqpp2]
I can’t remember what the problem was but I got rid off the relays I had on my bike ....I think it was not staying engaged and switching off and on ...making the ignition cut out ...I’m thinking when the c5 gets this condition just right it can wipe the memory out ...and as soon as I figured out the relay was the problem I took mine out completely and the c5 was fine ...I’m betting the relay took your c5 out and needs reprogram ...have you tried to talk to Paul on this ...
At the time I lived on gravel and bumpy roads and and I’m thinking the relays couldn’t handle the shock going on in the low voltage magnetic switch arrangement ...mines been-strait wired ever since

No I haven't talked to Paul.
I put back stock ignition and now I have spark (obviously.)

If I ever use aftermarket ignition again, it will be mounted on camshaft.
 

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