Single Carb Manifold with EMPI Carb

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krakum1967

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So I purchased a kit from eBay to put a single EMPI (Solex Clone) 34 Pict 3 Carb on the GL1000 I recently purchased. The original carbs were the victim of a rebuild by Edward Scissors hands with his dremel and hammer attachments. Costs for the kit were half of professional rebuilds with multiple thread repairs so I gave it a shot. My plan is to have the original carbs rebuilt, or go through the long process myself when I am not so busy doing spring services for metric riders in my region that cannot get tuneups done. Trying to get it into a business, but realistically, to start a bike shop in ND will require diversification and creativity in the off peak seasons, so I am still working on "inventing my wheel" so to speak.

Back to the issue. After a weeks worth of hair pulling, learning VW carbs, and various other changes made, the "plug and play" option (yea right) is running and idling so I took her on the first road test using the configurations that came with the kit.

Well, less then stellar result. It will need more work. Its running rich, and the accelerator pump floods the motor when hard twists are applied. It is choppy in places and has some issues. I need a smaller main, and need to lean out the pump.

In another thread I asked about exhaust mods, but those will wait until I get the baseline working on stock equipment.

And in spite of the makers assurances, I am the only person that has ever encountered icing with his manifold...hmmm...that claim is highly suspect.

So, I will be working with a welder friend who is coming over to see how we can plumb warm water from the cooling system in, or perhaps devise some way of conducting block heat to the plenum without that change. While I will say it was not directly ice, there is condensation that forms just under the carb that I assuming will develop into ice. The carb manifold joint stays ice cold even after riding 50 miles in 70 degree heat.

I have a K&N Filter set up with the crankcase breather piped in with an easy addition of a custom hose from the breather vent on the block to the flat K&N Filter.

I will be paying attention to other threads that are contending with these issues, but I figured I would post what I have done so far. But any advice would be helpful. Except for use the original carbs. I know, and I agree. The ultimate goal will be to restore the original carbs, but for now I am playing with this for my own reasons.

For now, I am looking for leaner jets, and preparing to adjust the pump. Hoping leaning out the rich conditions will address the rough patches, but we will see.
 

krakum1967

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MY apologies admins. I just noticed the child grouping for the custom fuel mods. Can I ask you to move this there, I will pay closer attention. My bad.
 

dan filipi

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Have you posted pictures of your manifold and carb setup mounted?
One thing I know for certain, have to be absolutely certain there are no vacuum leaks before trying rejet.


Thread moved.
 

krakum1967

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Yes, I tested for leaks. I use brake cleaner and spray the joints with the motor running at 2000 rpm or so, if it stumbles, you have a leak in that joint. I also tested using soap and water spray like I read about on some other forum that I will neither mention nor name...lol. Sertiuosly though, I use the brake cleaner technique to test cracked rubber intakes on other bikes to see if they still may be viable. I know from experience the XS1100 boots are notorious for ugly cracking even though they may still be good.

No leaks
 

krakum1967

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Oh, I have pics, but my DISHNET is being flaky since it took a lightning hit, it will be repaired tomorrow, so I will get pics up ASAP. I really try to get as much done online with all my business and affairs when it lets me for the time being. But I will get them up ASAP.
 

PeterDas

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I bought a gl1000 with a similar set up. It won't idle at all, has to run about 2500 rpm or it dies. I have abandoned it as the PO also could noy get it to work. A friend of mine is a VW guy who says it would be rare to make this set up work correctly. I have since ordered the Webber carb from Stovebolt and the adapter. I fought with the set up for 2 weeks now. It runs great above 2500rpm, never got it to work below that, My carb is a no-name knock off, so that could be my problem, but the webber is less expensive and said to work very well.
 

joedrum

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ok when rich icing is going to happen in summer or anytime ... this has been long battle for me also mmm flat out most car carbs when put on oldwings do not provide enough air to idle ...yes they seem rich and may be ... but the big problem as it turned out for me was not playing with gas jets ... it was getting more air to the game ... on the carb i use witch is not toms or solex ... its a weber dft ..but it bigger than the tom carb 32-32 dft......the problem was getting more air without adding gas at the same time ... for me this turn into putting hole in throttle plate totally away from any gas source.....reality is once the charge gets right ..the icing becomes less and less issue ...i am not saying start drilling holes as i have never work with carb your talking about ...just saying you ought to just keep hammering on getting the carb right ... clone or not ..the dam thing can be tricked to work it has never been the manifold set up that make or breaks the single carb set up like most people who push manifolds .....sheesh when stock carbs are crap out of adjustment they ice too ...its more a condition of the charge than anything else ......
 

krakum1967

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I should have just sent my carbs out, just upset as the time effort and money are putting this actually well above setting the bike aside and sending them out. I would have had them back by now.

This makes complete sense and now I see why Randakk used dual webers, lots of air in that setup.
 

joedrum

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no my bike will kill one those dual weber bike big time ... i sure would like to run into one ... id bet my house on it ... you just need to get some air to it .... how hard is it to file the edge of the throttle plate away from any idle feed on your carb sheesh
 

sgq700

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in my opinion, your main problem is "empi" i had a new one that never worked even close to ok!! i am sure that some might work , i don't know? that being said, if it is a VW carb and does not say solex on it... good luck! A bunch of us oldwing riders run a single carb and would never go any other way as all the trouble you encounter with the stock carbs go away. the stock set up works good when it works but they are getting very old and worn out. i ride 160 miles a day round trip to work and run one of stove bolt's carter/weber with a 2bbl to 1 bbl adapter right out of the box,elect choke and all and have no problems. i do not have the raw brute power that Joe has as if i whack mine to WFO it has a lean pop,i need to rejet but i doubt i will as it run's so well for me as is and i can still run 90mph to keep with traffic when needed. Don't give up! These old bikes are toy's.. not fuel injected crotch rockets!(aside from Joe's hot rod) and you can make it fun.. remember.. empi=trouble(it is from china,what do you expect?)
 

dan filipi

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Though I have never tried an Empi I'd never go back to the 4 carb rack.
Not trying to 'sell' a single conversion to anyone it's just a fact that a single is so much less troublesome.

It may appear to most that singles require a lot of 'fiddling' to get right when reading the posts by Joe and myself but the reality is back when I had the 1100 engine in I had to adjust mine very little to get running VERY good with smooth power and 41 mpg.
My 'fiddling' with it now is to learn (together with Joe) to find out what affects what.....I mean not that it's really 'necessary', more that we want to know so we can pass on the findings to others.
We have spent many many hours reading and studying the Weber carb to come to some very worthwhile mods to this carb which make it perform as well (maybe better) than the stock carbs.
 

slabghost

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On the vw manifold which used the solex single barrel. There is a 3" inch riser under the carb above the manifold. If yours does not have that riser it may help if you add one.
 

krakum1967

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I think this is likely stabbing out in the dark, but I have the K&N flat oval shaped filter that is used for Vw's on this carb, could it be too restrictive?

I will get picks of my setup posted tomorrow, I have reliable DISHNET access again.
 

slabghost

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K&N filters are not known to be restrictive. Quite the opposite. Most likely is the carb itself is too restricted. There has been a great deal of carb mods posted here to read. Most are dealing with weber two barrel carbs. I think single barrel carb. can be made to work but so far haven't read of anyone who has done it.
 

krakum1967

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There is some helpful data over on another site, not the naked one, but the one ran by s****. Sorry just don't know what you guys do about naming other sites specifically, so I will just leave it at I found some data. Anyway, I was given the correct jet size for the size of jet that should be in the carb, a mod to the butterfly plate, and leaner settings for the volume control screw and accel pump adjustments that need to be made to lean out the EMPI. I have also been talking to a sand rail group (dune buggies). There was some data given to me regarding swapping to a manual choke making the current choke shutter sit still as it will open up when you idle, but it will tend to close when you go down the road even with the choke disconnected. I was told that the spring will still contract in the temp changes.

This group stated yes, EMPI carbs used to be an ABSOLUTE PILE of garbage, but in the last 2 years, with the increased demand for parts in the burgeoning chinese auto market, the increased demand has given way to increased quality control. New ownership is in place with EMPI as well. They have improved so much so he started selling them again this year, but he will not sell a Bocor. And he said they will use Solex jetting, and he got me a source.

Another builder I heard back from said the Solex 30 Pict 1 can run out of the box with minor mods mentioned by Joe like filing or drilling the accelerator butterfly at the bottom of the carb, but it is best to rejet. He is also sending me some plans and data on getting plenum heat to the bottom of the plenum. My sons future father in law is a lifetime welder machinist/welder/metal worker (pipelines, wind towers and farm implements) who has been wanting to teach me tube welding and other forms that will be helpful to me. We are going to do the heat mods as part of my training., SO all is not lost.

I will state that I am chagrined that this was sold as plug and play, it is NOT plug and play. Its not the added work that angers me, its the lack of support and instructions by the maker. However, I will also state I WAS WARNED! This can be tricky business. The other site stated that the ones that Telly is selling now with the new design and heat mods are good kits and actually run very well out of the box, but those even require some adjustments depending on altitude. I am not confirming this, but its at least a sign that I did not throw my money away.

I needed a few days to get away from it, clear my brain and anger at myself. Serviced two Shadows, and provided basic cycle mainternace training to a newbie rider too.

And Joe, I panned on following through on your mod suggestions, but if its going to be that big of a deal, I was honestly shopping for a new daily rider to get my fat butt back and forth to town. I need to get the GL in the shop, get it on the blocks, and do everything all at once and commit 6 to 8 weeks to the project to get at this, adjust to a 2 barrel as I feel will be the ultimate solution, and do other mods like the C5, the inverted Front forks mod (I actually have a set of Honda 1800 forks I want to use). and do my dark custom work to the frame and side panels.
 

krakum1967

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Yea, I am not out on the carb at least, one of my customers has a 68 VW. We are putting the EMPI carb on that car so we can get that car out of the barn. It has sat for years, and needs carb work, so there we go. This will give me an idea of if this is a cab issue or what, but I can look at other options now.
 
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