32DFT Carb Icing Issues, Heating with Coolant, Heated air Intake and other methods of Heating,

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I see adding heat as a big step forward.

My carb, plenum, and runners were doing well without heat but I'm hoping heat will allow smaller primary jetting since the fuel mix expands as its vaporized.
 
Dan, that's real cool! May I suggest using aluminum instead of steel!! Heats better and will transfer quicker!! Put a shut off in the line where it comes out of the top outlet 1/4 shut off and run 1/4 " line down to the water pump cover, this will control (SLOW DOWN) the flow, to make it stay up by the plenumn area longer and heat better. Reasoning,...think about it,.. constant flow...good but you want to slow for better heat!!. My set up is just like yours but for one factor or two, your lines are 1/2 ok, mine 1/4 ok and heat on bottom 1/2 tubing around bottom plenumn (Great Idea) , mines a chamber !! And by all means Insulate like you said, it sure helps mine!! And maybe the runners!! Hope these suggestions will help,... lookin good :salute: !! Keep it up Dan!!!! :popcorn: :hi: BobEdit,...I sometimes don't read the whole picture, 1/4 tap front and back of lines,...duh :oops: ... Well, I guess just a shut off closer up on water pump side will suffice ! :wave:
 
Replaced clear poly with coolant hose.

Sides of the plenum will reach almost 100 degrees after a few minutes.
It's working well with steel plate and 1/2" copper provides a good amount of coolant flow, no need to slow the flow of coolant.
1/4" tube too small and restricts flow too much since the water pump is small and it pumps very little below 1000 rpm.
I watched all this in the clear tubing.
Maybe 3/8" copper, but no way 1/4 is big enough.

Next time around I'd use copper plate.
Good heat transfer and easier to solder.
Last I checked, copper and aluminum can't be soldered together. Or at least not as easily as copper and steel.

Bob, where's the pictures of what you have set up?
Maybe we could make it work better.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=102678#p102678:2eugemxz said:
Steve83 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:24 am[/url]":2eugemxz]
Nice! Gettin' close to the perfect setup.
Click to expand...
Ok, I wanted to take this chance to explain something about what we're doing here and our intentions with all this testing.

Bear in mind that there has not been a "perfect" single carb manifold/carb combo designed that produces good performance together with a smooth idle and high (at least comparable to stock average of 43) MPG.
If that design is out there, I've never seen it.

I'm running 1" runners straight to the heads.
Joe is running slightly larger runners with venturi's inside.
westgl is trying out different designs.
Jungo is using 1.18 I.D runners and seems happy with it.

All 4 are using the VW type 4 plenum.

What I am after is.....

1. smooth steady idle.
2. Good acceleration
3. Good passing power
4. Foremost, 45 or better varifiable MPG

I've custom made the runners.
Custom made flanges
Added heat to help vaporize

I have tried the CI manifold and see it's too large of volume in comparison to the VW plenum and my 1" runners.
I have run and checked MPG with bigger runners on the VW plenum, checked mpg with my smaller runners.
I've leaned mine out, I've richened it.
I've eliminated the power valve.

Now I'm adding heat.

All these things are trial and error to find out the real scoop what is actually needed to achieve the bottom line, best all out performance and good mpg.

The final outcome could be totally different than we expect it to be, as well as it's design.
Rough plumbing, unpainted mock ups, parts zip tied together..... It's all part of the simplest and cheapest way in the process of R&D and finding out what works and what doesn't work, or what is needed and what is not needed.

All mock up's no matter how bizarre or "unusual" are part of what is needed to come up with this ultimate design as each trial and error adds to what we all need to know, what works and what doesn't work.
 
Hay Dan, cool that yours is getting that much heat :good: !! Yea that would be hard to weld/solder alum.& copper together :blush: !!! I'll find some pictures of mine!! I have a flat bottom as you can see the CI has, so heating ut wasn't that bad!! Later :hi: Bob
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=102673#p102673:36q4gutq said:
dan filipi » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:47 pm[/url]":36q4gutq]
Replaced clear poly with coolant hose.

Next time around I'd use copper plate.
Good heat transfer and easier to solder.
Last I checked, copper and aluminum can't be soldered together. Or at least not as easily as copper and steel.

Bob, where's the pictures of what you have set up?
Maybe we could make it work better.
Click to expand...


Yes you can see it done here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COaK_mQfipU ian

since seeing this not a lot of good reports so maybe ally to ally is going to be the best. Ian
 
I don't know if this could be a factor or not but I am wondering if you divert the flow of coolant away from circulating through the cylinders and head if that could cause overheating of the engine. I think Dan mentioned that at idle there is low flow anyways so if you take, say, half of that and run it through our plenum heater there might not be hardly any moving through the engine. The parallel path through the plenum heater might be a path of less resistance.

I have absolutely no data or experience with this but just wanted to point out a possible unexpected negative consequence to look out for.

Brian
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=102776#p102776:396g4sb6 said:
canuckxxxx » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:59 am[/url]":396g4sb6]
I don't know if this could be a factor or not but I am wondering if you divert the flow of coolant away from circulating through the cylinders and head if that could cause overheating of the engine. I think Dan mentioned that at idle there is low flow anyways so if you take, say, half of that and run it through our plenum heater there might not be hardly any moving through the engine. The parallel path through the plenum heater might be a path of less resistance.

I have absolutely no data or experience with this but just wanted to point out a possible unexpected negative consequence to look out for.

Brian
Click to expand...
The additional volume actually helps cool the motor. Just as using the heater in your car will.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=102776#p102776:2f84vns8 said:
canuckxxxx » Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:59 am[/url]":2f84vns8]
I don't know if this could be a factor or not but I am wondering if you divert the flow of coolant away from circulating through the cylinders and head if that could cause overheating of the engine. I think Dan mentioned that at idle there is low flow anyways so if you take, say, half of that and run it through our plenum heater there might not be hardly any moving through the engine. The parallel path through the plenum heater might be a path of less resistance.

I have absolutely no data or experience with this but just wanted to point out a possible unexpected negative consequence to look out for.

Brian
Click to expand...

This is a very good question!

It wouldn't be a parallel path because the coolant supplying the heat plate is coming out the top tstat/crossover housing which just went thru the engine.
The return is then at the lower hose, so flow is always thru the engine.

Your question did get me thinking if my taps and coolant flows could reduce flow thru the radiator.
The radiator is warming like usual and fan is cycling. All seems ok but this is certainly something keep an eye on.
 
I have thought about this but until I get the plenum could be weeks yet I thought about tapping in to the two pipes that go to each cylinder head, they clearly flow coolant from the thermostat housing then splits off left and right to each side of the engine. For me this seems to be the obvious take off point, it is directly above the pipes but, if you took off two pipes one from the (looking forward) left and right hand pipes the left being the longer, would you get a good flow. A 90⁰ take off on each side would defeat itself. So you need a supply and a return. I would suggest an angled supply from the long side with an angled return to the short side near the entrance into the head.

Any coolant coming from the pump and hence from the radiator although "hot" would be hot enough to heat the plenum.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=102797#p102797:2ct4z8e9 said:
ianstaley » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:48 am[/url]":2ct4z8e9]
I have thought about this but until I get the plenum could be weeks yet I thought about tapping in to the two pipes that go to each cylinder head, they clearly flow coolant from the thermostat housing then splits off left and right to each side of the engine. For me this seems to be the obvious take off point, it is directly above the pipes but, if you took off two pipes one from the (looking forward) left and right hand pipes the left being the longer, would you get a good flow. A 90⁰ take off on each side would defeat itself. So you need a supply and a return. I would suggest an angled supply from the long side with an angled return to the short side near the entrance into the head.

Any coolant coming from the pump and hence from the radiator although "hot" would be hot enough to heat the plenum.
Click to expand...
I took supply from the center, that is where both crossover pipes meet.
Return has to be to the pump suction side unless you diverted say one of the crossover tubes to flow thru the heat exchanger then back to the center coolant housing.
 
well it depends ..if you cant get your carb dial in good then heat will be required for it to run better as a too rich carb dial in will ice up ...i noticed on my trip recently and in the cold ..hooch had really no icing issues ..it will surge a bit at idle when cold out ..but this instantly goes away with any throttle added ..and bike cruises nice on the road ....when hooch was richer in its set up icing was a bigger problem ..i use no heat whatever and must say it runs better than stock in all conditions compared ..even to out of wack stock carbs which ice up way worse than hooch does .....on the trip the only thing that iced up was me ..it was way to cold to be riding :shock:
 
I noticed nobody talked about exhaust heat. I have (2) 3/8" copper lines that I bent up under the plenum. I know more heat would probably be better, but these were easy, cheap, quick, and will never leak coolant.
I also tried copper scrub pads between the plenum and the top of the engine. That really did nothing.
In another string I talked about the grid-heater. That made a big difference. It even helps when there is no power applied to it. It has a waffle pattern that must improve atomization. I use a little PWM to control the power. Otherwise it will kill the battery pretty quickly. Draws over 12 amps at full power.
 
it has been talked about ...i currently dont use heat and actually blocked off heat coming from the heads also ...and for several yrs now ive had no problems with icing ...i find the better the carb is dial in good ...icing doesn't happen
 

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