'84 1200 engine for a '82 GW

[canuckxxxx]

Very interesting Joe. I think I remember you saying that in the "the story of hooch". Good to know that 1000 cam would cause clash with 1200 heads. I was wondering about 1100 cams in 1200 heads but decided not to go there. :nea:

I might redo the adapter plate because I made a mess of the countersinking of the 8 mm bolts. You can't just use big drill bits because they don't leave a cone hole the same angle as the bolts. I need to buy some countersink drills for the next try.

Also, there is no gasket between the adapter and the head...just gasket-maker. Did you use a gasket?

I am just using this for the tach drive so would like to trim that part that sticks up for the fuel pump...any suggestion?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[canuckxxxx]

I took the right side cam out today. Managed to do it out by just removing the right side timing cover, turned the engine over until the T1 marks were lined up at the inspection hole and #1 intake was starting to open. Took a picture of the timing wheel so I would know how it went when I put it back together. Then I drilled and tapped the end of the cam for 3/8 coarse threads. The centre bore is machined into the end of the cam so it is pretty easy to get the hole in the exact centre of the cam.

image

• canuckxxxx
• Mar 1, 2018

Stood the cam up with the cam wheel on my drill press and drilled a 5/16" hole for about 1 1/2" into the end then threaded it with a 3/8" tap. Similar to this.

image

• canuckxxxx
• Mar 1, 2018

The cam drills pretty easy. It is made of cast iron with some kind of very hard coating on the bearing and lobe surfaces but the rest is pretty easy drilling.

image

• canuckxxxx
• Mar 2, 2018

I drilled and tapped the tach drive worm gear thing before cutting it off the end of the 1100 cam. So put the whole thing together.

image

• canuckxxxx
• Mar 2, 2018

Put the cam back in, timing belts, valve cover on. Then I put the tach drive on, tach cable.

Then I started it up. Having taken the cam out, that side was completely drained of oil so ran really rough and noisy until lifters had filled up then it ran like normal. THE TACH WORKS!

I hadn't made a cover for the opening where the fuel pump goes and I didn't thing there would be much oil getting in there but it filled up pretty quick and started running out onto the floor so I shut it down.

Working on cover for fuel pump hole :builder:

 

[Rednaxs60]

Nice mod for the tach. Have a question. The cam shaft for the right cylinder head of an '85 LTD fuel injected engine has the Gr/Gl sensors attached to the end of the camshaft - bolted on. Could you not use one of these 1200 heads and then not have to drill? Just wondering.

 

[canuckxxxx]

Rednaxs60 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:49 am[/url]":2fss69y3]
Nice mod for the tach. Have a question. The cam shaft for the right cylinder head of an '85 LTD fuel injected engine has the Gr/Gl sensors attached to the end of the camshaft - bolted on. Could you not use one of these 1200 heads and then not have to drill? Just wondering.

Maybe. I haven't seen one of those. Are they a rare part since they were only on the FI engines.

But really, drilling and tapping the cam is very easy and straightforward.

 

[slabghost]

You've probably guessed it already but. I'll state the obvious. You have eliminated the fuel pump drive by using a bolt. The pin section that you took the drive gear off of drove the mechanical pump.

 

[canuckxxxx]

Yeah, I knew that. I like the electric pump better than the mechanical.

 

[Denver]

Those Prelude fuel pumps are way better than any of the fuel pumps put on our bikes. :good: Under side of the car, in all kinds of ugly weather, was their home, tuff, durable, little buggers!!! :yes:

 

[canuckxxxx]

Denver » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:47 pm[/url]":77zhgpmp]
Those Prelude fuel pumps are way better than any of the fuel pumps put on our bikes. :good: Under side of the car, in all kinds of ugly weather, was their home, tuff, durable, little buggers!!! :yes:

:good: :good:

 

[Rednaxs60]

Brian - read your thread again as I am looking for info on 1200 engine rebuilds. Great info and enjoyed it immensely.

Having rode the bike for the season, any update on the engine with the new rings, compression readings? Any joy on the crank bearing info?

Looking into these items as well. Not too may '85 FI engines out there for purchase and when there is, not inexpensive. Doing the heads right now. Should make a difference.

Have found the brown con rod bearings. These are the middle of group of 5 bearing shells used for the 1200 con rods.

Cheers

 

[canuckxxxx]

Actually, Ernest, that 1200 engine met a very early death. :crying: The very first ride I took, just down to the nearest gas station, the red oil light came on and I didn't notice it soon enough. One of the cam shafts seized up and pistons and valves on that side collided etc, etc.

When I took the clutch cover off the back the sprocket for the oil pump fell out. Idiot me, :head bang: :swoon: I think when I was messing around with the 1100 clutch I only finger tightened the bolt that holds that sprocket on.

I was so discouraged that I put the 1100 engine back in and that is what I rode all summer.

I have subsequently taken the 1200 engine all apart and inspected the main bearings, pistons etc and they are fine. Just needs a new head and it could be resurrected. It was not the right side head that was ruined so my modded cam and tach drive are still OK.

But I bought an old '79 Suzuki GS850 that I'm trying to restore so the 1200 will have to wait.

 

[joedrum]

gee wizz …. its amazing how a little thing can just crush a project … after reading your short story I makes sense the cam sticking would be the first that would go out get tight and slip or break the belt clashing the motor ...I bet this save the motor as in the mains and all ,,sorry this happen sheesh

 

[Rednaxs60]

Thanks for the reply. Sucks when these things happen, but we can probably agree, you're not the first. Good to hear the bearings are all good. These engines are quite robust.

Look forward to version two of the 1200.

Cheers

 

[canuckxxxx]

Joe, first I must say that I'm sorry for just disappearing from the forum. There is something about making such a stupid, careless and destructive mistake :head bang: :head bang: that completely took the air out of my sails :swoon: :doh: and thinking that the whole thing is just a big waste of time.

Having said that, the inquiry from Ernest yesterday got me thinking about the whole 1200 engine thing. I still have the 1200 engine sitting in my garage. Last spring I cleaned up the 1100 heads from that junk motor, lapped the valves and put new Prelude valve seals and they are sitting on the shelf. So all I need to do is buy some head gaskets and I could put it together with the 1100 heads. Can't afford another 1200 head to replace the ruined one. Even the head gaskets are a stretch when you consider shipping and the exchange to Canadian dollars (true dough).

Brian

 

[joedrum]

yah well i did a really dumb move also trying copper head gaskets that pretty much trashed my bike I had working so good ..im just now getting thing somewhat dialed back in ...I was just smart enough to really do something dumb LOL...hope you do go after it again ill help you all I can for sure ..like the members here always do you included ….parts are expensive and is my main stick in the spokes about doing things and what got me in trouble ..not having things quite the way they need to be ...like a heat gauge and fan working up to par ...im looking forward to the new project when your ready ….I think my bike got a wrist pin knocking on hooch but it seems to act like it will go that way awhile and also have a motor to put into it also ..but like you say full gaskets sets are expensive and a show stopper right now

 

[Rednaxs60]

Brian - life gets in the way and we may branch off into a different direction, but that's okay, keeps us young, even if it is in our minds.

My interest, besides learning and enjoying the threads, is that engines for my 1200, an '85 LTD FI bike are not that plentiful and finding information to keep it going is a worthwhile endeavour. It is good for me as I am retired as well, and need a project or something similar to keep the mind sharp and active - shudder at the thought of maybe going back to work, not happening.

Looking at the 1500 right now. Have one and enjoy it, but it will not get the same TLC as my 1200. I'm going to look at the crank and con rod bearings for the 1500 and see if these items may be a suitable alternative. Honda was not in the business of reinventing the wheel so to speak.

I looked at the piston size and it is 71.1 mm versus the 70.5 mm for the 1200. You used rings from a 2000 tracker 1.6 litre engine and changed the end gap to suit. This would also be possible with the 1500 rings I would think, not taking into consideration the cost - car rings are more appealing.

Head gasket prices are expensive, but I can tell you that Honda head gaskets are $80.00 a pop here north of the border and available from Honda. I think you can get a set for $50.00 CDN plus shipping: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/KR-Motorcycle-h ... :0&vxp=mtr These look good from the pics.

Got a bit more research to do.

Cheers

 

[Rednaxs60]

Brian - did I read in one of your threads that you had the journal sizes for the 1200 crankshaft - con rod and main bearing journal sizes? If you do could you repost. Putting together a spreadsheet to compare 1500 and 1200 con rod an crankshaft bearing sizes.

So far not a lot of difference in bearing shell sizes. Here's my spreadsheet so far: View attachment 1500 - 1200 Engine Bearing Comparison Chart.xls

Cheers

 

[canuckxxxx]

Rednaxs60 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:51 am[/url]":155s4tfj]
Brian - life gets in the way and we may branch off into a different direction, but that's okay, keeps us young, even if it is in our minds.

My interest, besides learning and enjoying the threads, is that engines for my 1200, an '85 LTD FI bike are not that plentiful and finding information to keep it going is a worthwhile endeavour. It is good for me as I am retired as well, and need a project or something similar to keep the mind sharp and active - shudder at the thought of maybe going back to work, not happening.

Looking at the 1500 right now. Have one and enjoy it, but it will not get the same TLC as my 1200. I'm going to look at the crank and con rod bearings for the 1500 and see if these items may be a suitable alternative. Honda was not in the business of reinventing the wheel so to speak.

I looked at the piston size and it is 71.1 mm versus the 70.5 mm for the 1200. You used rings from a 2000 tracker 1.6 litre engine and changed the end gap to suit. This would also be possible with the 1500 rings I would think, not taking into consideration the cost - car rings are more appealing.

Head gasket prices are expensive, but I can tell you that Honda head gaskets are $80.00 a pop here north of the border and available from Honda. I think you can get a set for $50.00 CDN plus shipping: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/KR-Motorcycle-h ... :0&vxp=mtr These look good from the pics.

Got a bit more research to do.

Cheers

Ernest, the 1200 has a 75.5mm bore

 

[canuckxxxx]

Rednaxs60 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:34 pm[/url]":2v7t43er]
Brian - did I read in one of your threads that you had the journal sizes for the 1200 crankshaft - con rod and main bearing journal sizes? If you do could you repost. Putting together a spreadsheet to compare 1500 and 1200 con rod an crankshaft bearing sizes.

So far not a lot of difference in bearing shell sizes. Here's my spreadsheet so far:

Cheers
1500 - 1200 Engine Bearing Comparison Chart.xls

OK, I'll see if I can find main and big end journal sizes.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Oops my bad - finger problems. This will change my search parameters. Piston rings from a 1500 are not an option then. Tracker it is, top of short list. List only has the Tracker on it. :smilie_happy:

Heading home today, enough of the snow and cold of the frozen north. Love to see and visit family and friends, but climate in Victoria is civilized. Bike riding weather for the next week.

Cheers

 

[canuckxxxx]

canuckxxxx » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:54 pm[/url]":tnzycqgf]

Rednaxs60 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:34 pm[/url]":tnzycqgf]
Brian - did I read in one of your threads that you had the journal sizes for the 1200 crankshaft - con rod and main bearing journal sizes? If you do could you repost. Putting together a spreadsheet to compare 1500 and 1200 con rod an crankshaft bearing sizes.

So far not a lot of difference in bearing shell sizes. Here's my spreadsheet so far:

Cheers
1500 - 1200 Engine Bearing Comparison Chart.xls

OK, I'll see if I can find main and big end journal sizes.

Ernest, the only reference to crank journal sizes that I can find is post #389 where I ask if anyone knows the journal sizes for 1200 crank. Don't remember ever finding sizes. Is there another reference you have found the I have forgotten about?

Frustrating thing is that in the Honda Shop Manual they give most other sizes of engine parts like piston diameter, wrist pin, etc but for the crank they just give clearances. Maybe the only way we're going to find out is by measuring from a disassembled engine.