C5 Installation on GL1100

[slabghost]

Paul is very careful to include everything needed to install the C5. If it seems you need to make parts chances are you are assembling it incorrectly. Call Paul.

 

[MrUnlucky]

I got everything that was shown in the picture of the kit, I'm not really worried about that right now. I'm scared to start my bike because I don't know whether I should change the right side cam to "up" since it was running.

If this is one of those "it will run but not properly" that might explain a few things if the guy I bought it from did something wrong.
If it's "no, that will definitely bite the heads off the valves" then there's some other explanation for why the pulley isn't showing "up" (since it did run) and I shouldn't change it.

 

[slabghost]

Does the right cam have the tach drive on it along with the lobe for the fuel pump? If so I think it will run 180 out. Both pistons stand proud on one side while both on the other side are at bottom of stroke if I recall correctly.Both cam pullies are exactly the same but opposite faces.Face forward depending on which side they are installed . Since you suddenly got an oil leak you may have the wrong side of the pulley facing front or the cam may be 180 out. I suggest you loosen all the valve adjusters as far as you can then go back through the instruction for cam install and belts install.

 

[joedrum]

hmm thats right i think when one says up in up position the other should be say up on the bottom ...im sure thats right but sometimes i think wrong at the computer screen

 

[MrUnlucky]

slabghost » 37 minutes ago[/url]":e9s7i7lw]
Does the right cam have the tach drive on it along with the lobe for the fuel pump? If so I think it will run 180 out. Both pistons stand proud on one side while both on the other side are at bottom of stroke if I recall correctly.Both cam pullies are exactly the same but opposite faces.Face forward depending on which side they are installed . Since you suddenly got an oil leak you may have the wrong side of the pulley facing front or the cam may be 180 out. I suggest you loosen all the valve adjusters as far as you can then go back through the instruction for cam install and belts install.

1. Yes, it has the tach cable and fuel pump lobe
2.Nah, the oil leak was because a torn gasket allowed the front seal on the left cam to slip out of place. Fixd.

After a healthy swig of wine I went ahead and unbolted the cam caps, flipped the cam over, and reassembled. Turned the engine very gently via the crank pulley bolt and rotated around 3 or 4 times with no significant resistance. Took another swig and bumped the starter motor, no death rattle.
Battery's still dead and it's hella cold so it didn't fully fire, just sputtered for a second.

Everything I googled in a panic (including that nice video on old vs new timing gears here on CGW) indicated that both cams should have UP at the top. Since I've now rolled the engine around fully with it up and 180 out with no pings, if it runs rough after I charge the battery I can just swap it back.

Paul is very careful to include everything needed to install the C5. If it seems you need to make parts chances are you are assembling it incorrectly. Call Paul.

Okay, now that I'm not panicked:
He sent me exactly what I ordered, which is the GL1100 kit. The fault is mine, not his, for not mentioning that I was going to swap out to 79 GL1000 cams. The GL1100 cam installation requires drilling and tapping the end of the left cam to accept a bolt. The 79 GL1000 cams already have a threaded end (for the factory ignition) but are a few inches longer.

 

[slabghost]

Oh. Okay. So you actually failed to mention you were installing it on the head. I believe Paul made a spacer for that. I think there is a p[icture of it in one of his announcements. I'm pretty sure it included 2 gaskets.

I may be mistaken though. It might have been to fit it on the 1200 head.

 

[MrUnlucky]

Oh. Okay. So you actually failed to mention you were installing it on the head. I believe Paul made a spacer for that.

Yep, this one's on me.
And while I'm sure he already has a fine solution to this problem, at this point I can't afford to wait on it to show in the mail.
So...

I took the top off an old starter motor, cut it down to 1 1/2"

Drilled some mounting holes to secure it to the C5's base

And with the addition of one washer to the standoff (in accordance with the instructions) this will place the encoder disc exactly in the center of the space between the circuit board and the optical pick-up.

It's not mounted yet, because I wanted to rev her up to 6000 rpm or so just to make sure I had the oil leak fixed before threadlocking the ignition onto the cam.
Except she wouldn't start because she got wet, which is exactly the problem I'm trying to solve.
But I kept trying to get it to fire...so now I've burned out another starter motor and it's still raining.
Maybe the Starter Motor Gods are mad at me for sawing a starter up to make my spacer...

 

[slabghost]

Looks good to me from here. I'm really hoping for the best outcome for you. Here is a link to his announcements thread that may have other solutions you can apply.viewtopic.php?f=111&t=9226

 

[brianinpa]

Great idea for a spacer.

Is the timing issue good now?

 

[slabghost]

Yep that's the spacer. It's supposed to have two gaskets with it.

 

[MrUnlucky]

brianinpa » February 15th, 2016, 11:41 pm[/url]":2ap1ewby]
\Is the timing issue good now?

Yep.
Couldn't wrap my head around the "it still works if 180 out" so I decided to flip it back to the way it was.
Center stand, 5th Gear, rolled it around until I saw
T
1
F
took right timing cover off...upside-down AGAIN.
"You've got to be f-ing kidding me..."
take left timing cover off...also upside-down
put 19mm wrench on crank pulley bolt and turned it until both cam pulleys were UP, looked in the little window, and sure enough saw
T
1
F

There are TWO marks for TDC1 and two for TDC2. When I re-did the left side after the oil leak, I was looking at the opposite mark from the one the right side was set to. This made the valve sequence (1+2), (3+4), (1+2), (3+4) instead of 1, 3, 4, 2. So basically it doesn't matter which T1F mark they're timed to as long as they're both turned the same way.

She still isn't firing, but that's probably just because I haven't actually installed the C5 yet. I made myself sick sunday night rebuilding the left side again in the cold mist until late at night, so I not only failed to cover her up before I went to bed but also failed to notice it was raining outside monday morning while I was busy being sick. So it's "raindead" once again, and maybe cooked off another set of coils since she still wouldn't run today. I REALLY hope this C5 solves this problem instead of the electrical gremlin just cooking the C5 coils.

Oh, and it wasn't my starter motor, but my starter solenoid that failed. It clicked (which usually doesn't happen when one dies) but wasn't sending power to the starter motor. Replacement starter had exact same behavior, old starter spun just fine when attached to jumper cables, and jumping across solenoid terminals spun the engine.

 

[dan filipi]

You got it right since the cams turn 1/2 speed.
There is only one t-1-f and one t-2-f marking on the crank.

 

[MrUnlucky]

Weather (mostly) cooperated today, got it mounted and got all the soldering done.
Can't start her yet because I have to find four of those stupid little things that screw on the end of the spark plugs. Then I'll find out if she explodes or not.
On that subject, since the manual says I can damage the ignition if I don't use resistor type spark plugs, I wanted to re-confirm with you guys (stupid question incoming) that the "R" in NGK DPR8EA-9 is for "resistor". I am positively terrified my bike is going to cook this thing. I should be eager considering how long I've been looking forward to this, but I'm afraid.

 

[slabghost]

"R" does mean resistor on most plugs. Maybe all. I'm no eggy spurt on it. With all the running issues you've had and one spark plug being very different. Along with not having the screw on plug ends why not just buy a new set of plugs?

 

[dan filipi]

The adaptor looks good and so does the alignment.
Nice job.

 

[MrUnlucky]

"R" does mean resistor on most plugs. Maybe all. I'm no eggy spurt on it. With all the running issues you've had and one spark plug being very different. Along with not having the screw on plug ends why not just buy a new set of plugs?

lol
They are new. The set that's in it now is only about two months old. Since I first started having this problem I've had about four sets of plugs in her. I do have another spare set waiting, but they didn't come with those tips. The set that I bought at Autoquest to to with the generic spark plug wire set (between the second and third OEM wire sets that I have) had them, but I'm not sure if I kept all four of them.

 

[MrUnlucky]

In the immortal words of Johnny Cash:

♩♪♫♬"Well we drilled it out so that it would fit♩♪♫♬
♩♪♫♬and with a little bit of help from an a-dapter kit♩♪♫♬
♩♪♫♬we had that engine runnin just like a song!"♩♪♫♬

 

[slabghost]

That's great!

 

[brianinpa]

:clapping:

 

[dan filipi]

I really like the ingenuity in making this work.
Can you post a video?