canuckxxxx's Single carb manifold build

[Ansimp]

Great to see that you didn't have to wait five months for a test ride :good:

 

[canuckxxxx]

Update:

Well I bought some modeling clay and played around with forming it around the coolant plumbing below where the plenum will go. It is fairly easy to do but you have to play round with it...take the clay off and put back on several times.


I think the solid aluminum mass connecting the top of engine to the bottom of the plenum would be a good way to get heat to the plenum but I got to thinking that making that alum. blob is the very last thing to do after all the manifold issues have been worked out and you are sure that the plenum will not move even a little. It will also cost some money to get someone to cast the thing once I have the shape in clay. I think I will wait until I have the grab rail manifold built and see how that goes before I go any further with the alum. blob.

Also I want to try some other ideas first that will not cost much.

Now I am making a shroud to close in the coolant plumbing and the plenum so air warmed by the engine heat will be held in and hopefully warm up the plenum. I am working with cardboard to get the shapes right before making it out of tin. I am doing it in two parts; one part will be a shroud covering the top of the engine below where the plenum goes, the other part will be a shroud on the plenum. When I have the final configuration of the manifold I will join the two shrouds together. Trying to make a one-piece shroud that fits the plenum perfectly as will as fitting the top of the engine perfectly seems like a cosmic mind-bender.



Joedrum, I remember on another thread that you used crumpled up aluminum foil to conduct heat to the plenum. How did that work for you? The advantage of that is that you can form it, shape it, change it to whatever you want. I am thinking of doing that instead of casting which is completely unforgiving. Plus a whole roll of Al foil is very cheap. I guess the amount of heat transfer would depend on how tightly you crumple the foil together. I would love to hear your comments on that Joe.

Brian

 

[joedrum]

okay brian ..I think everyone feels that was a failure....... but truth is I got to where I wanted to dissemble the runners ..and did some work to the chokes I have sleeved into the type4 manifold outlets ...I did run it .. it was only about haft built ...I think its just not quite the right thing to use but I am not totally done with it as option ....I am pretty much in the camp that the heat thing will be one of the last things I do ... its been made obvious to me that getting it dial in good in jetting took most of the icing issues way down....another reason I've back off here

 

[dan filipi]

I just want to throw this in here.....

In my experience, adding heat is not directed at reducing or eliminating icing, it's intention is directed at making the mix vaporize more efficiently.
I have found without heat it will run and run pretty good, but with heat it runs and adjusts much better.

I think if you can get it to run real good without heat and the spark plugs are not black/sooty, then your on the right track.
Once heat is added the burn is much better because there's less raw gas getting into the cylinder and jetting can go smaller.

 

[Ansimp]

I believe that Al-Foil does not have enough mass to transfer heat, in most applications (cooking) it slows down direct transfer of heat, IMHO.

 

[canuckxxxx]

Ansimp » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:08 pm[/url]":1os9rhnx]
I believe that Al-Foil does not have enough mass to transfer heat, in most applications (cooking) it slows down direct transfer of heat, IMHO.

How about if you really pack that alum. foil in with a rubber hammer so that it is very compacted? Might be worth a try.

 

[slabghost]

canuckxxxx » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:21 pm[/url]":3skt1dd8]

Ansimp » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:08 pm[/url]":3skt1dd8]
I believe that Al-Foil does not have enough mass to transfer heat, in most applications (cooking) it slows down direct transfer of heat, IMHO.

How about if you really pack that alum. foil in with a rubber hammer so that it is very compacted? Might be worth a try.

That might work. Maybe with some chopped up aluminum cans mixed in it might transfer the heat better. Personally I like the shroud idea. Enclose the plenum and runners out to the plugs and down to the top of the motor. Maybe with a cheap rubber floor mat?

 

[dan filipi]

I like the idea of making a shroud with rubber floor mats.
Easy to trim into place, maybe anchor the top edge to the frame rails letting the bottom lay on the engine.
Seems easy enough.

 

[canuckxxxx]

slabghost » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:45 pm[/url]":25eguipt]

canuckxxxx » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:21 pm[/url]":25eguipt]

Ansimp » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:08 pm[/url]":25eguipt]
I believe that Al-Foil does not have enough mass to transfer heat, in most applications (cooking) it slows down direct transfer of heat, IMHO.

How about if you really pack that alum. foil in with a rubber hammer so that it is very compacted? Might be worth a try.

That might work. Maybe with some chopped up aluminum cans mixed in it might transfer the heat better. Personally I like the shroud idea. Enclose the plenum and runners out to the plugs and down to the top of the motor. Maybe with a cheap rubber floor mat?

I'm not picturing the rubber floor mats...how would that work?

 

[slabghost]

Rubber floor mat install. Cut opening in center to allow carb through. lay it out flat covering the manifold.cut holes for the runners just in from the spark plugs and slit the mat to push it in place. Slit the mat in front of front runners and rear or rear runners to allow front and rear material to drop down. Cut ends at motor height. All four sides. Now fold front flap over or under side flap and glue or tape. Do the same with the rear. Result should enclose the entire manifold to the top of the motor like a tent with just the carb sticking out.

 

[canuckxxxx]

OK I get it now Slabghost. Would be a good way to see if hot air trapped under a shroud would be warm the plenum without having to build complicated/expensive stuff. Would be nice to have a thermometer in there to see how warm it gets. Maybe attached to bottom of plenum.

My manifold is apart again right now so cannot run bike or try the floor mat idea. Must wait...

Brian

 

[slabghost]

If the carb is off. The opening for the carb can be made to fit closer. Installing the carb after the tent or shroud whatever we call it.

 

[dan filipi]

Call it a "heat mat, shroud thingamajigger."

 

[canuckxxxx]

How about "heat slab" after all it is slabghost's idea.

 

[canuckxxxx]

Well it has been a couple of weeks since I posted anything on this thread so I figured I better wake up.

A friend of mine, (who has a lot more money than I do), has a basement full of lath, milling machine etc etc that he uses for building scale models of steam trains. He was kind enough to make some brass doughnuts that he silver brazed to the flanges on my 1 1/4" grab rails. These doughnuts have a groove cut in them to accept the OEM O-rings for the OEM manifolds.

grab rail base brazed to brass base with O ring groove 2

• canuckxxxx
• Dec 16, 2013

So my manifold build has taken a bit of a turn; I am replacing the OEM manifolds with these grab bar manifolds. The rest is the same. The pieces of fuel hose are the same length as before. The reasons I think these manifolds are better than the OEM ones are;
-The grab bar (GB) manifolds are 1 1/8" ID instead of 1 3/8" for OEM
-The flanges I made allow the GB manifold to pivot to whatever angle is most comfortable for the fuel hose. So instead of the fuel hose having to make an "S" bend it only has to make a gentle curve.
-The GB manifold fits nicely inside the fuel hose to make a very secure, air-tight connection. I found too that if you put the hose clamp right over where the end of the grab bar is inside fuel hose, it squeezes the fuel hose into the grab bare so there is no ridge from the grab bar.
-Because the GB manifold makes a 90 degree bend (and not sloping up like the OEM manifold) the plenum ends up lower down, very close to the coolant pipes on the top of the engine. Hopefully his will allow me to use the heat from these pipes to heat the plenum.
-With the flexible fuel hose and the pivoting flanges the 4 runners are very close being the same length.


Brian

grab rail manifold 1

• canuckxxxx
• Dec 16, 2013

whole manifold

• canuckxxxx
• Dec 16, 2013

whole manifold from top

• canuckxxxx
• Dec 16, 2013

 

[Ansimp]

Excellent job :good:

 

[ekvh]

Looks nice. Clean look.

 

[dan filipi]

Nicely done Brian.

I would still dremel a taper on the inside of the GB ends where it enters the hose because I feel any chance for the fuel mixture to hit an edge will disrupt the flow and give it a place to collect and build up a raw liquid.
That is why I spent so much time filling and sanding all my edges to a completely smooth taper.
Maybe I'm over thinking it but any little insurance here I feel is worth the effort.

Mine is a different situation but as it is I have a plan to knock down this steep edge on 2 of the runners...
I don't know if it's worth the effort but I won't know unless I try.

#4 adaptor done

• dan filipi
• Oct 25, 2013

 

[joedrum]

yep bian this is sweet ... nice job and all your reasoning seemed super sound ....

 

[canuckxxxx]

Here are some pics, with the manifold mounted on the bike, that show how low down and close the plenum is to the coolant pipes.

manifold over coolant plumbing 3

• canuckxxxx
• Dec 16, 2013

manifold over coolant plumbing 2

• canuckxxxx
• Dec 16, 2013

manifold over coolant plumbing 1

• canuckxxxx
• Dec 16, 2013

So my next project is to make some kind of solid metal (aluminum) connector from the coolant pipes to the plenum. I am still thinking of molding a shape out of modeling clay and then having a casting made.

Also considering forming aluminum foil into a tightly compacted mass that fits around the coolant pipes, the top of the engine and the underside of the plenum. A 100' roll of foil is only about $3 so it wouldn't cost much to try. Say the volume under the plenum is about 2" x 2" x 4" = 16 cubic inches. A 100' x 1' roll of al foil that is .0001" thick would have a volume of 1200" x 12" x .001" = 14 cubic inches. So a bit over 1 roll should do it.

Anyways I ordered a thermometer with a remote sensor and digital readout from Amazon. When it arrives I will mount it to the bottom of the plenum so I can see what works and when doesn't as far as heating the plenum goes

digital thermometer

• canuckxxxx
• Dec 16, 2013

Brian