Measuring running GL1100 temps with an IR thermometer

[joedrum]

heat actually is important ...it changes gas charge into vapor ....but this doesn't mean the carb has to be heated ....they say if you heat the plenum of manifold your jetting can be lower ....if your not heated the jetting will go bigger ...this is true ..cold air is denser ....the thing not said here is speed of flow .....cold charge has much more gas in it ....if the heads are hot enough to vaporize gas right at the head passage the cold charge set up is fine and much more powerful....some FI set ups shoot gas right in head ...sort of the same thing .....

the tests chuck has done has shown that the runners are up there in temp ...right at 60 i think it was ...then went much higher...id say on my bike temps are even lower.....and it has proven out to me on hooch that the cooler charge stays fine all the way to head ....and runs fine ....the only time I've had icing problems is when the idle charge was way to rich ....to me it seems thick runners and or also insulating runners cause the gas charge which is biggest thing going on to have huge effect on the runners and what going on inside runners ...the thin runners like i have on hooch in reality are getting warm up from outside air constantly ...where thicker and insulated one promote the runner condition inside runner as outside air doesn't warm them......i also think smaller runners in diameter slow flow at any given point in rpm and can promote a more icing condition....this all being said ...if the carb is jetted and dial in good is the hugest thing to preventing icing ...and a good dial in carb will work on about any manifold set up....as ive said before heated manifold is a band aide fix to bad gas charge and also a power reducer ....it my opinion if you get your carb dial in good without heat you have the most powerful set up

 

[MobtownMatt]

You know... if you know anything about machining, you could very easily fab a fuel heater that would utilize the engine heat to heat the fuel before being carbed into a cold intake in addition to insulating the manifold. You could do it out of a small block of stainless steel. I'd say probably cut it out of a larger blcok, but cut out a 1"x1" square with a length of about 6 inches, leaving small mounting tabs that you can drill out for a bolt. Find a place on the engine that it can sit flush, mark it out and weld on some small mounting studs. Take the 1" block, and drill it out lengthwise. I say right off that 5 /16 bore would be a good start. I would bore the piece about 1/8 inch off of the bottom side that will be against the engine, to allow for optimal heating without getting too hot, or having too thin of a tube. Then I would tap the ends for the proper size threading for a coupler. Aft that, I'd round off the top of the heater, knocking off the corners, but leaving as much body thickness as possible to make it harder to cool down. I'd mourning it and fab a small heat shield to go over it, and the hook your fuel line in.

It's basically utilizing the technique that Ford utilized on the 1963 Galaxy 500 352ci intake. The full flowed from the pump, THRU the intake manifold, ended to en, and then out and into carb.

Just a thought though. Just popped in my head.

Someone give a shot.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk

 

[slabghost]

Okay folks once again. Atomized fuel is tiny droplets mixed in air to create the fuel charge. The "cold " charge. Vaporized fuel is fumes. The "hot" charge. Gasoline will not freeze or gell even at minus 20 degrees farenheit . Actual freezing is only an issue in aircraft at higher elevations. You cannot get the optimal fuel charge of 9-13 to one mix of air and gasoline with vaporized fuel. Will motors run with less? Absolutely!They will run very well with quite lean mixes . Up to the point that motors get extremely hot and detonation occurs.

 

[chuck c]

The freezing I'm talking about is water in the gas.

 

[chuck c]

I agree that warming the gas is a good way to go. If you're riding in really cold weather I think t could help noticeably. I don't think it needs to be elaborate. You could run a loop of metal fuel line behind the radiator or lay it on top of the engine with a windshield to prevent wind cooling it. Then insulate the line from there to the carb.

To make starting easier there are small 12v patch heaters that could stick right on the float bowl of the carb. Let that run for a couple of minutes before you even hit the key. I'd include a timer that would shut it off after a set few minutes.

 

[slabghost]

If you insist on going with heat have at it. Water in the gas if it freezes it will be in the fuel tank. Water does not mix well in gasoline except with assistance of the alcohol. Mixed with the alcohol it is unlikely to freeze in the manifold. Manifold can actually have frost on the exterior and the fuel charge be absolutely ice free.

 

[chuck c]

You're right, with ethanol in the gas it's probably not a problem anymore. Legends of freezing might date to pre-ethanol days. In fact, I'm not sure, but isn't "gas dryer" sold to prevent water freezing just alcohol? That means all gas now already contains it!

I'm going to poke around and see if there's any hard info on how temp of gas relates to ease of mixing in air.

 

[chuck c]

I did some poking around at one of my favorite places, McMaster Carr, to see if they just might have a replacement for the stock O-rings on the intakes. I got lucky. They had one that's gas-resistant and a perfect fit. :music:
Here's a link to them.
https://www.mcmaster.com/#5044k14/=14l2cis

My only concern is I can't tighten them down as much as the OEM o-rings which are made to be metal-to-metal. I'll have to watch for any loosening screws. If they do, I think a drop of thread lock will fix it.

 

[chuck c]

Here's tonight's test with them on all four intakes. They dropped the intake temps by 60 degrees!
Joe's spacer concept is proven by SCIENCE! :BigGrin:
[video]https://youtu.be/Uh8_vaBRiSM[/video]

Separate issue, I'm not sure why #4 is running colder than the others. The plug gap was much too close so I re-gapped it and figured it was fixed. Not so much. Next step now that I can get it up to operating temp is adjust the valves. I'm hoping that helps the rough idle too.

 

[joedrum]

well idle is high on it ,,,and id say some carb work needs to be done ,,,,tolean or rich probably effects the temps your getting ...and maybe number is struggling right now from carb setting as it is now maybe

 

[chuck c]

joedrum » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:03 pm[/url]":7s8ko101]
well idle is high on it ,,,and id say some carb work needs to be done ,,,,tolean or rich probably effects the temps your getting ...and maybe number is struggling right now from carb setting as it is now maybe

It was running 2500-3000-ish on choke to get it up to temp and more flow thru the system. It idles unevenly about 1500. Not great but not terrible.

 

[Ansimp]

Great progress :good:

 

[chuck c]

Since they do seem to work I'm thinking of making some small metal spacers to put between the flange and head so I can fully tighten the screws. If there's any problem with screws coming loose that will fix it for sure without adding much contact area for heat to pass through. I could make them non-metal too, like fiberglass or micarta but that's overkill and there's too much risk of dropping them down an intake. At least with steel I'd have a chance of fishing them out with a magnet. OR I make them stainless steel which is a poor heat conductor and epoxy them to the intakes so they can't cause problems. This whole idea is overkill and I have other things that need attention!