V65 on 1200 plenum

[ekvh]

It doesn't look like it, but the angle is too much for fuel rated hose to make the turn. I ordered some stainless steel elbows from China. Stupid! Afterwards remembered the grab bar method. Could have gotten them and be done. Now it might be weeks waiting for them. I also ordered parts for my for forks from hondaparts-direct last Saturday. They waited until yesterday to contact me to say they don't have two of the o-rings. I was hoping to get them Sunday. Now I'll have to wait another week. Not impressed with their service. I need to start paying attention to the shipping dates on websites. They also should indicate if they have them in stock or not, or I guess I should call the order in and ask before finalizing.

 

[joedrum]

hmmmmmm hows this going eric

 

[canuckxxxx]

Eric, what if you abandon the OE air box and run pod filters or make a custom air box?

Brian

 

[ekvh]

I was getting close, after multiple failures of cutting trying to get the angles correct, I finally thought that I had them. So I decided to put some fuel pressure to the carb rack and it leaked like a sieve in the carb fuel line connectors. Next I will have to solder or make some fuel lines and then try it. I think I need new O-rings that go on the fuel lines and they may be difficult to find. Getting the rubber boots on the carbs to the elbows is going to be difficult to get to seal I think. I can't find my torch to solder. I think it's at the other place, 100 miles away. Not sure this is going to work well at all. Getting to be a lot more work than I thought it would be.

I am using the Plenum so that throttle and choke linkages can easily be used and to gain the value of the Plenum volume. The 1200's are different in that they are canted quite a bit more towards the valves. I don't know if that's good or bad. I'm mixing a little old school with the bigger valves and bigger carbs.

 

[joedrum]

well the potential was there ...and looked stock ....hmmmmm shame it not cooperating

 

[ekvh]

Gave up on making my own intake runners, but still hope to try it someday. For now, I wanted to see if the V65's on a 1200 plenum are close enough to work. Since Joe is busy wrecking carbs, I figure, why not. I'll wreck some too. What I did finally is based a bit on seeing Dan's video with 1" runners. I decided to give it a go with the 1200 intake runners. I'm looking for more bottom end grunt. Smaller runners are supposed to give up a bit at upper rpm, but speed up the charge going into the cylinder, and as a result, get more charge in due to increased velocity. Mine must be somewhat like a second Venturi. So I took a 1-5/8 hole saw and hogged out the carb side of the runners. They bolt up nice and look like 1200 carbs now, but they are bigger. I had trouble getting it to idle down properly, so I swapped a 35 slow jet for the v65's which on mine were 38. Better but still 1500 rooms unless I hold the throttle with my hand. I finally noticed some of the enrichment valves were not closing all the way. The linkages on these two sets of carbs are so close in looks, but the v65 carbs are slightly different. I am in the process of adjusting each one so they are seated at idle. Hopefully at takes care of my idle issue.

I couldn't help myself and took it for a spin. Wow!!! The butt dyno says lots more power, but at the top end. I think this is going to be a good mod for the 1200,000's. There. New name. Will likely need some tweaking, but it doesn't feel like much right now. Try and take pics and post later. Dinner's done, back to work!

 

[joedrum]

opcorn:

 

[ekvh]

Must have some sticking slides. Runs great, then I get a hanging idle. If I really snap the throttle, it will drop to 1000rpm. Funny thing so far, if I bench sync so that the idle holes are covered by the throttle plate, it idles well. When I sync with my gauges, it hangs or returns slowly. It's probably my throttle plates being slightly askew. Seemed to be a bit lean, but with the rain we're getting I can't ride it much.

I don't know of any procedure to clean these, they are typhoon coated, I think. Anyone else ever hear of anything?

This is a lot of work, and pretty much trashes a set of gl1200 carbs, but I think it's going to bring benefits. Especially for the 1200,000's.

 

[joedrum]

hmm sounds like spring or vacume adjustment if ..slides turn out to be rather clean ..hard for me to think all 4 sticking and it seems ...from your words its working good otherwise

 

[ekvh]

It could be sticking throttle plates. Hope to ride some today. I had my mixture screws at about 2-1/4 turns out, but read that was California specs, so they're now 3-1/2 turns out. This setup isn't much different than stock 1200 carbs just larger but now with two venturi's. The 1200's are 32mm with 30mm venturis and 30mm elbows. The v65 has 36mm with 33mm venturi's going into 30mm elbows. Kind of an even progression.

 

[joedrum]

yes seems like a a great mix on parts eric ...im thinking you might bt on a good path here ...the thing that gets me is i always low end power ....was never lean...and the carbs gave up at high end running ...like the complete opposite of whats going on with your bike ...i hope to ride today too .... opcorn:

 

[ekvh]

These do have bigger needle and seats and should be able to supply enough fuel compared to 1000 carbs or 1200 carbs. Just went out and cleaned slides, but I think it was my choke linkage that was holding my idle up. When I blipped the throttle hard, it would come back down, but I think it was the linkage, that I left just loose under there, that was bouncing in and out of the linkage path. I removed it and in the garage it hasn't hung up again. Mist is just enough to keep me from riding still.

 

[joedrum]

great news ..located problem is always nice

 

[ekvh]

Still have to snap the throttle to get it down to 1300rpm. Acceptable. Needs float valves before I do anything else.

 

[ekvh]

I am very close after chasing the jetting game for a few days. With my tilt-up tank, wedged air filter, no choke cable, only a pull throttle cable, I can get the carbs off in three minutes and change. I did a jet change yesterday that I parked the bike, swapped the jet, and had it running in 25 minutes. When I got my first Goldwing, I'll bet it took six hours just to get the carbs out. Anyways, back to the v65 carbs, after chasing jets, I was still getting such backfiring all over the ranges. It ended up one of the idle mixture screws had fallen out. Duh----uh.........again. It also was why I couldn't get it to idle, and was the leak of fuel on that carb too. So I ended up with a 38 slow jet, rather than a 1200's 40 slow jet, and a 135 main jet, much larger than the 1200's 105 main and the v65's 120 main. This got me close and it would go like he11, but surge then flood, then surge. So I ended up plugging one of the two holes in the bottom of the slide. The 1200 has only one hole. This just slows down the lift of the slide. I used a piece of welding rod and bent it over to partially fill one hole. That way it's reversible if it doesn't work. Another nicety about these carbs is the slides are accessible from the outside. I can change needles, add washers etc without removing anything.

This what I did last year or two years ago on the 77 carbs. I hope to get a running video one of these days if I can figure a way to strap my iPhone on it safely.

 

[joedrum]

yep rack snatching time can get good during these dialing in times ... opcorn:

 

[ekvh]

I swapped needles today, one with a more even taper. Well, I was about to write this off as no better than my 77 carbs. And perhaps even worse. But today I decided to back my timing off a little bit so I just tweaked it a little bit, didn't even measure it but it brought the idle down some. So I took it for a ride, a little popping at around 4-5k but not as bad. I left a stoplight, got going about 5 miles an hour, clutch fully out and put the hammer down and the back tire broke loose like never before! Tried it a few more times same thing. So I would have to say this needs some more work. It definitely feels like it's got more juice on the bottom end now. I need to swap a different set of plugs in as that is something I changed also. I had my timing at around 9 degrees advanced. It's probably about 7 now. I will put a light on it later. Gotta go pedal the bike for a bit so I stay viable.

 

[joedrum]

hmmmm sounds good and bad ....ive just about come to the conclusion that cv carbs just cant cover the entire range of rpm the oldwing motors are capable of .....even well running ones suffer a bit off idle ... opcorn:

 

[dan filipi]

Sounding good Eric.
Keep at it I bet you will find the sweet spot.

 

[ekvh]

Tweaked more. I think tomorrow I will go down to a 120 main jet. I can really see where a C5 can help on any carb swaps, single, double, quad, because timing is so important. Anyone ever hear how many degrees between the three sparks in a C5??? I bumped mine up to ten degrees advanced last year mostly because Joe says his runs well there. I thought I was just getting used to the bike, but I had a real power drop going to ten degrees advanced. With three sparks it gives you more total timing.