OP
OP
I learned from my PVC experiment that those rubber carb boots were enough to prevent PVC from melting just 1/4" from the head, with the cooling flow of course. It wouldn't take much to do it.
Aluminum intake manifold
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MobtownMatt
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I disagree. That wouldn't be overkill at all, if it works. Pushing cool air and fuel all the way to the cylinder will give you a better combustion. Let me know if it works!chuck c":18db06rj said:
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Cold and condensation a good thing and preferred for best charge as I see it.
Good going Chuck.
Good going Chuck.
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OP
In an ideal world I'd run before and after tests on a dyno to see if there was a measurable change in HP, but I can measure the temp of the mix at the cylinder head and see if there's any difference. I have a thermometer with a probe that's skinny enough that it might fit through the test port on the intakes. What would be super cool is a thermal camera! Who wants to drop a couple hundred on one for me?
MobtownMatt
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Yeeeaaahhh... I'm good on that. I'll save my money. Just curious if the rubber insulates the intake is all. Lol.
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i cant speak for the rubber as a gasket to stop head heat ...but a thick gasket can mines 5/8" thick ....i need no dyno to feel the difference ...on my bike i had it both ways ....and i can tell you the bike runs so much better with cool charge ...hooch can run with the best out there ...so much better than stock set up
MobtownMatt
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Y'all just made up my mind for me. Haha.
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well matt its not weather you use heat or cool charge....the deal with SCC is actually getting carb dial in good ..its sort of a lost art ...and most carbs out there are epa infected carbs that tranlates into ..not totally adjustable carbs ..i had to mod my carb back into a pure strait carb so it could be dial in ..once that was done its amazing what a oldwing can do with real carb in the system ...
MobtownMatt
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Elaborate.
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ok ill try ...my oldwing motor is a 1200 motor with 1100 heads witch are bigger valves...1000 early 75-77 cams witch are the most aggressive stock cams and pistons knotched so valves dont hit....that said my motorcraft weber 32-34 carb ...is epa carb of the 70s...they were made to be user unfriendly with a lot of non adjustable devices made for the application of the car it was made for ....this totally makes it almost impossible to use it on something else ...honda stock carbs are the same way really ...so on my build i took the epa devices off the carb ...like the power valve deal ..altitude compensator ...and more really ...choke and plates off the top to promote more air flow .....but more important was the fact the carb comes with a idle and off idle circuit that basiclly one circuit ....i had to seperate the two circuits so i could ajust the idle ...without messing with the off idle circuit....once i got that done ..i could get a dial in nice idle that wasnt too rich and a off idle that had no flat spots or bogs ....along with accelerator pump super low end torque ...being a 2 stage or progressive carb the higher rpm comes in as carb grows to match the high rpm oldwings are capable of ....
the bike can pull the wheel off the ground in second gear .....truth is unless you get a crisp idle ..you stand no chance going anywhere fast ...you just cant start from bad idle so to speak ...stock carbs are different they have the ability to idle well and cant go from there ...they use vacuum to pic up the slides and vacuum is just not consistant thing to do that smoothly though out the rpm zone as cable operated strait carb can ...and stock carbs never get going good till about 3000rpm on there best day...and lack low end torque completely compared to like my set up .....strait carbs require nothing but air flow and good jetting to make a perfect gas charge and dependent on nothing else to work ...simple and totally rock solid reliable in my opinion when all things right :heat:
the bike can pull the wheel off the ground in second gear .....truth is unless you get a crisp idle ..you stand no chance going anywhere fast ...you just cant start from bad idle so to speak ...stock carbs are different they have the ability to idle well and cant go from there ...they use vacuum to pic up the slides and vacuum is just not consistant thing to do that smoothly though out the rpm zone as cable operated strait carb can ...and stock carbs never get going good till about 3000rpm on there best day...and lack low end torque completely compared to like my set up .....strait carbs require nothing but air flow and good jetting to make a perfect gas charge and dependent on nothing else to work ...simple and totally rock solid reliable in my opinion when all things right :heat:
OP
OP
I did a bit of research at lunch today. Found this:
Thermal conductivity units is W/(m K) at 25C (77F)
Epoxy 0.35
Fiberglass (solid) 0.04
Plywood 0.13
Carbon Steel 43.00
Iron 80.00
Aluminum 205.00
Copper 401.00
So just about anything other than copper would be better than aluminum. I could make a few thin shims out of G10 which is a type of fiberglass board used as an electrical insulator. It can stand a lot of heat, too. This would be a fun experiment. A thermal video would be fantastic but a noncontact IR thermometer will work. I stopped to get one on the way home but they were out of stock.
Thermal conductivity units is W/(m K) at 25C (77F)
Epoxy 0.35
Fiberglass (solid) 0.04
Plywood 0.13
Carbon Steel 43.00
Iron 80.00
Aluminum 205.00
Copper 401.00
So just about anything other than copper would be better than aluminum. I could make a few thin shims out of G10 which is a type of fiberglass board used as an electrical insulator. It can stand a lot of heat, too. This would be a fun experiment. A thermal video would be fantastic but a noncontact IR thermometer will work. I stopped to get one on the way home but they were out of stock.
sounds neat chuck ....so low number is best insulator .... that makes me feel good that plywood seems best ...as it works well and also handle the heat a oldwing head has ...been going for yrs now ....and the runners never get hot ....good research
OP
OP
rubber is .15 so rubber gaskets would work well.
JoeBarTeam
Well-known member
Hi oldwing-owners
I'm curios reading all the articles about single carb on a oldwing. It's not i want to perform the same with mine but it's interesting. Until now i didn't find anything about differences in mpg, high power or at low rpm. Is there a difference? What is the reason for the mod? Thnx a lot for explaining!
Greetings from europe
I'm curios reading all the articles about single carb on a oldwing. It's not i want to perform the same with mine but it's interesting. Until now i didn't find anything about differences in mpg, high power or at low rpm. Is there a difference? What is the reason for the mod? Thnx a lot for explaining!
Greetings from europe
OP
OP
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=181758#p181758:ngtqulcs said:
That's a good way to start a debate! No one has done good tests but in general mpg is the same. Most claim the singles are losing a few HP over the original set when the set is in perfect tune and condition. The big reasons to do it are maintenance, setting, and tuning are MUCH less hassles and expense. The rebuilt kit for just one oem carb (so times 4) is about $50, for a Solex they are $18. There is no syncing. Once set right, you can forget it.
i have done many test ...and the truth is most the info about single carb set up is totally false and the same goes for stock carbs...they are not better set up as pushed ...they actually very poor gas in charge delivery x4...cv operated carbs are the slowest carb delivery system out there
id put my single carb set up up against any stock carb set up out ....i take a bashing from people who differ in my opinion .....but that matters not .....i have the bike that can prove it ..with just a twist of the wrist and has done so many times
id put my single carb set up up against any stock carb set up out ....i take a bashing from people who differ in my opinion .....but that matters not .....i have the bike that can prove it ..with just a twist of the wrist and has done so many times
MPG change... no real change for me that I can tell as of yet, but I never really cared about fuel economy. My Jeep got me 17 MPG, so anything over that and I'm happy.
Horsepower change... again I can't say for sure because of my unique set-up. I went from an 1100 motor with stock carbs running a C5 ignition to a 1200 motor with a single Solex and the same C5 ignition running a Car Tire on the rear wheel. I was never able to break the rear tire loose with the 1100 motor even with the reduced contact area of the motorcycle tire. Now if I am riding and the roads are wet, I need to be a bit more careful when I get to the higher RPMs in second and third gears. I can easily get the rear tire to break loose and carry that into the next gear. Horsepower change - can't say, but torque - oh yeah I see a big increase!
Maintenance... I finally got the jets and idle screws set the way they are now and I haven't fiddled with the carb since then. The electric choke isn't set correctly yet, but with the accelerator pump and the throttle lock, I haven't had to worry about that yet. Colder temps are coming so maybe that will change - time will tell. I have a manual conversion kit ready to install if needed. This set-up really is set it and forget it . The bike runs so much better on one carb rather than on 4 carbs that may or may not be set correctly. I sure don't miss having to break out the carb synch gages.
As chuck already mentioned... price of parts is another point to consider. For me, one of my biggest concerns on going the single carb route was the manifold as I do not have access to a TIG welder. I just found one for sale and bought it... With dlk's PVC intake giving him the success that he has been having, a metal manifold may not really be needed.
Horsepower change... again I can't say for sure because of my unique set-up. I went from an 1100 motor with stock carbs running a C5 ignition to a 1200 motor with a single Solex and the same C5 ignition running a Car Tire on the rear wheel. I was never able to break the rear tire loose with the 1100 motor even with the reduced contact area of the motorcycle tire. Now if I am riding and the roads are wet, I need to be a bit more careful when I get to the higher RPMs in second and third gears. I can easily get the rear tire to break loose and carry that into the next gear. Horsepower change - can't say, but torque - oh yeah I see a big increase!
Maintenance... I finally got the jets and idle screws set the way they are now and I haven't fiddled with the carb since then. The electric choke isn't set correctly yet, but with the accelerator pump and the throttle lock, I haven't had to worry about that yet. Colder temps are coming so maybe that will change - time will tell. I have a manual conversion kit ready to install if needed. This set-up really is set it and forget it . The bike runs so much better on one carb rather than on 4 carbs that may or may not be set correctly. I sure don't miss having to break out the carb synch gages.
As chuck already mentioned... price of parts is another point to consider. For me, one of my biggest concerns on going the single carb route was the manifold as I do not have access to a TIG welder. I just found one for sale and bought it... With dlk's PVC intake giving him the success that he has been having, a metal manifold may not really be needed.
this is what i mean ...the false info out there ...that been pushed for yrs....is totally wrong as it can be .... and it wasnt just pushed by honda purist ....it was also pushed by people involved in the single carb side of things ....here at classic there were several of us that just didnt accept the info pushed as fact ....and learn the true facts about single carb set ups and stock set ups .....
OP
OP
I'm very curious just how cold the manifold gets so I ordered a noncontact infra red thermometer today. I will take measurements of the manifold, intakes, and cylinder head while running with and without some sort of insulator between the intakes and head. I'll take pics and maybe even video. I'll start another thread for that experiment. Now I just need to make the insulators...... easier said than done.
I was planning to try PC board fiberglass but it's only good to 284 °F. That's borderline. I'm guessing that head near the intake gets pretty close to 300. I'll know a hard number when I get that thermometer. Wood obviously works (Joe's bike hasn't burst into flames. Yet.) I think wood is good for about 450. Neoprene works but making the things will be a :sensored: to cut out. Same for silicone which is fine to 500. I don't have a nice neat way to cut them out.
I was planning to try PC board fiberglass but it's only good to 284 °F. That's borderline. I'm guessing that head near the intake gets pretty close to 300. I'll know a hard number when I get that thermometer. Wood obviously works (Joe's bike hasn't burst into flames. Yet.) I think wood is good for about 450. Neoprene works but making the things will be a :sensored: to cut out. Same for silicone which is fine to 500. I don't have a nice neat way to cut them out.
