Another Alt Mod Install

[desertrefugee]

The poorboy kit includes a couple of 1 inch spacers to kick the bottom of the radiator out for clearance. Of course that creates another set of problems in adapting a lower radiator hose to fit.

On my 84 Aspencade, I did have to make a minor adjustment to the lower faring. Minor.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Desertrefugee - Going to lower the fan as much as possible and looking at removing a lot of metal on the fan shroud. May remove all the metal that could contact the crank pulley and secure the shroud a different way. May have to trim the fan blades as well.

Put the swing arm and FD back on yesterday as well. Starting to look like a bike again.

 

[desertrefugee]

Posting another image supplementing the one I provided earlier. Note where, as directed, I removed one of the fan struts entirely - in addition to trimming material off the shroud. In typical Honda fashion, the fan support structure is over-engineered and easily handles its duties after such a modification.

Also, you can see the "nuts and bolts" that attach the fan to the frame. Monkeying around with these (not OEM) also provides some "adjustability" whereby you can shift the fan closer to the radiator for even more clearance.

These techniques would help you, too, I'm sure:

 

[Rednaxs60]

Been a few days since my last post, but have the alt installed and the bike back together, pics to follow. Lowered the fan closer to the rad to get as much clearance as possible, had to remove one of the fan support brackets to clear the alt belt, and trimmed the fan blade edges to miss the crank pulley. Tried the fan on the outside of the rad, but too close to the front fender and would hit.

Good results so far, charging well, quiet operation. Have a three wire set up. Only issue is the bike runs hotter now. Checked to make sure the thermostat was oriented properly - has a hole in it that's supposed to be oriented to the top. Have had discussions with another fellow who did the alt mod on an '86 SEI and he has the same issue. I have put in a switch to operate the fan manually that does help - can have fan operating continuously if needs be. Will be having the rad cleaned as well, and possibly renewing the thermostat.

Comments/suggestions?

Cheers

 

[joedrum]

hmmmmm i guess the extra stuff around the radiator is cutting the cooling some as a guess ...manual switch sounds great to have on system ...1200 radiators are smaller than earlier yr oldwings...seems most think this is improvement ...i fail to see the logic there ....my bike is set up for altinator mod ...but it is a 1200 in a 1000 framed bike .....with the bigger radiator ...radiator wasnt move forward and dose have out front fan on it ....i pretty much have alternator pulley against crank pulley and covers are cut so pulley inset in timing covers ...mine as of now is just set up for center mount alternator...as my bike has single carb set up too and theres room for it ...i also dont use a thermostat in my set up ..but instead use continuous flow resrtictor plates ...right now down here in fla i dont even have restrictor plate in bike ...motor runs cool ..actually cooler than stock set up ..seems to work great for me ....dont know if any of what i said here can apply to the smaller 1200 radiator ...just commenting ,,,as of now my stator is doing fine for me and its just set up to maybe go that way ...

 

[Rednaxs60]

Thanks for the info. Agree with rad size, why make the 1200 smaller. What size is your rad - would like to compare it to the 1200 size. Measured mine - cooling area is 10" wide by 11" high (fin area). Have not heard of continuous flow restrictor plates, but have heard of modifying the thermostat such that a hole is drilled in the centre of the thermostat essentially doing the same thing.

My friend who worked on HDs for quite a while put forward that the additional load of the alt on the engine could be facilitating the extra heat load. I tend to agree; however, the heat is not dissipating even when cruising on the highway. Intriguing.

Cheers

 

[joedrum]

i always heard it was so they could lower the seat height ...go figure that ...i once tried to put a 1000 radiator in a 1200 framed bike ...if i remember right it was taller and also thicker .....and yes and old thermostat gutted in the center except for spring part is my restrictor plate deal ...i have several plates with various holes ...all held by the spring when used ....1200 actually flow about 12% more water than earlier motors ..same goes for oil too as there driven by the same deal ....i should also mention on my bike there is no heat shield either ....so the back side of the radiator is open and really flows air ... coul be that taking heat shield out on your bike if its there could lower temps of the entire set up to be ok .....my bike been like this for few yrs now what ive noticed is oil stay good a lot longer ...motor is diffinitly quieter ...and i can lay my legs right on the heads and never get hot ...as of now i have no hiway bars ..so long trip require using heads to straiten legs every once in awhile ..

i think heat is one of the biggest discounts on the stock 1200 set up ...even the standards seem to run quite hot ...mine totally the opposite....

 

[Rednaxs60]

Took the rad into a rad shop to get it serviced. The older gentleman there knew about the 1200s and had one in the week before. He did a flow test and estimates that there is 25% or so blockage. He mentioned that because of the narrow fluid passages in this style of rad, once plugged the passage is done. I'm having a new core put in. Should make a huge difference when done.

Could also continue with different solutions to address the symptom (excess heat), or address the problem - plugged rad. can spend a lot of time, resources and effort, and still eventually do the rad. He also mentioned there are only two rad guys left in this city and once they retire, rad work will be hard to have done.

Always a challenge. Keeps the intellectual juices flowing.

Cheers

 

[dan filipi]

I put an 1100 radiator on a 1200 running a sidecar and leading link front forks. That rig took every bit of cooling it could get. One thing that really helped cool it was putting the early 1000 air deflectors on it to direct air thru the radiator.

I have doubts the external alternator is loading the engine any more than the internal would unless your running more current load now. Maybe the external blocks enough air flow with an already marginally sized radiator. I would try it with the lower fairing removed.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Have been riding the bike with the lower fairings off, and still no joy. The alternator is positioned far enough out that it should not be impeding the air flow - not a lot of room in there even before the alt install. Where the alt is positioned there was a duct that ran cool air back to the rider so I see no difference in air flow. No real change in the load other than the alt install.

One consideration is that the rad has been off and dry for almost two months. Before this the rad was always full and any build up inside would still be a fluid of some kind. Possibly whatever was inside the rad has had time to harden; hence the reduction in cooling capacity. The cooling passages are not that large and it wouldn't surprise me if the crud inside the rad did harden. Will ask the fellow for the old core back and if he agrees, will cut it down the middle for an inspection.

Cheers

 

[slabghost]

Lower fairings off is a big part of the issue. They act like the side scoops on a standard to direct air through the radiator. With radiator kicked fwd they will be less effective now than before. Maybe side scoops from a standard can be fitted to still allow the lowers to fit? Any trimming of the fan blades will reduce flow. Pretty sure Summit racing carries the restrictor plates to replace the T stat.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Thanks for the information.

Went out and looked at the lower fairings. The sides are contoured such that air would be directed towards the rad. When I get the rad back and installed, will fit the lower fairings and also look at some sort of design to make up for the new alt install changes.

Putting all this information into a succinct package will be most challenging.

Cheers

 

[Rednaxs60]

Here is a picture of the rad as originally installed. You can see how the fairings (side and lower) are curved to put air into the rad. Will use this as a template for the final product.

Cheers

 

[dan filipi]

That grill on top of the radiator front blocks air flow quite a bit.

 

[slabghost]

dan filipi » Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:39 pm[/url]":cqxus55p]
That grill on top of the radiator front blocks air flow quite a bit.

True enough! I missed that in the picture until now.

 

[Denver]

With a new core, it may be fine as it is . :yes:

 

[desertrefugee]

I had no issues cooling mine after the poorboy conversion. Had one of those fancy dancy grills too. The alternator does not put enough of a load on the engine to make any difference in cooling. With a refurbished radiator you should be fine.

 

[desertrefugee]

Rednaxs60 » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:20 am[/url]":1sdqrimq]
...Lowered the fan closer to the rad to get as much clearance as possible, had to remove one of the fan support brackets to clear the alt belt..
Cheers

Glad to hear my suggestion proved useful!

 

[Rednaxs60]

All too often you do something, an upgrade, replace a part, and then something happens that should not have. Then you second guess what you have done and start down the "rabbit hole" so to speak chasing the perverbial "red herring". I fully expect a the new core in the rad will take care of the issue. I will also try to ensure the lower fairings fit as per what appears to be the original intent.

Cheers

 

[Denver]

Sensible plan, :good: should handle the situation nicely. :yes: