Electric plenum heater experiment (single carb)

[slabghost]

Might be able to tap the receivers of the tube and install nipples then pipe it through the plenum.

 

[joedrum]

dam hose fit right over the head elbow ... I think everyone making this to difficult

 

[canuckxxxx]

joedrum » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:15 am[/url]":1q83ohnj]
dam hose fit right over the head elbow ... I think everyone making this to difficult

That must be big hose!

 

[canuckxxxx]

canuckxxxx » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:20 pm[/url]":1yz9m4bn]

skiri251 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:57 pm[/url]":1yz9m4bn]

sgq700 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:42 pm[/url]":1yz9m4bn]
"O" rings. i did all mine on the bike.. that tube is very thin!, but i wasn't scared...

So if I can find the same OD tube and add hose fittings both ends I can intercept the coolant flow completely.

You will see when you take it apart that the tube is captured, or held in place, between the fitting on the head and the centre piece because it is solid straight piece and the end fittings are fixed. As soon as you cut the tube there is nothing holding it in the fittings.

But if you can figure a way around that, the routing you suggest would work very well and would easy to do. All the flow from that one head would go through the plenum.
I am starting to have second thoughts about the idea of diverting all the flow from one head through the plenum. When the coolant leaves the pump it splits and flows through each side of the engine. I am sure the Honda engineers tuned it so that the flow was close to equal to each side. Now it you mess with one side, put extra lengths of hoses and flowing to a higher elevation, you will increase the resistance to flow on that side. The coolant will take the path of least resistance and flow more through the unmolested side.

I don't think you want to mess with the basic operation of the cooling system or you might fry your engine. Or at least half your engine.

So I think it would be better to leave the OEM system as-is and then tap into it and run a parallel path through the plenum.

 

[joedrum]

well its how the CC manifold hooks up .. to the coolant system ...the CC set up is the best ever mass produce and did what it claimed .. I am not going to argue much with that success record ... they are prized set ups for sure

 

[canuckxxxx]

One thing that I did that made it way easier to work on the top of the engine was to remove that big heat shield. There is no turning back for me because I removed it with tin snips.

Anyway if you do that, all those coolant pipes are easily accessible. It really was not hard at all to remove all that plumbing, clean it really good, drill and tap a hole on the end of the centre section and put a barbed fitting in. I happened to have a gasket set for my '82 that had the 4 O-rings for the tubes from the heads, a big O-ring for the T-stat, and a small O-ring for the coolant bypass at the base of the T-stat housing and the 2 gaskets for the elbows that bolt to the heads...you will need to source all those. You don't have to remove the radiator.

That fitting would be the supply for your plenum. You could make the return at the T-stat housing. I had considered doing that on mine but figured I would get more flow putting the return down at the pump but I don't know that the T-stat location wouldn't have worked. I believe others have used that location with good results.

Brian

 

[skiri251]

canuckxxxx » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:50 am[/url]":3nbgra78]
One thing that I did that made it way easier to work on the top of the engine was to remove that big heat shield. There is no turning back for me because I removed it with tin snips.

Anyway if you do that, all those coolant pipes are easily accessible. It really was not hard at all to remove all that plumbing, clean it really good, drill and tap a hole on the end of the centre section and put a barbed fitting in. I happened to have a gasket set for my '82 that had the 4 O-rings for the tubes from the heads, a big O-ring for the T-stat, and a small O-ring for the coolant bypass at the base of the T-stat housing and the 2 gaskets for the elbows that bolt to the heads...you will need to source all those. You don't have to remove the radiator.

That fitting would be the supply for your plenum. You could make the return at the T-stat housing. I had considered doing that on mine but figured I would get more flow putting the return down at the pump but I don't know that the T-stat location wouldn't have worked. I believe others have used that location with good results.

Brian

I browsed your single carb thread.
Good idea to put a plate at the water pump housing.
I didn't find the reason why you switched from bolted pipe to welded one.
More flow?

As for permanently removing the heat shield, no, it's really bad here in southern California. My legs will be slow cooked to a barbeque.

I admit I am just lazy for some reason.
I went through dropping the engine to replace failed stator. I have removed the radiator twice.

 

[skiri251]

canuckxxxx » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:28 am[/url]":q5cglypl]
You will see when you take it apart that the tube is captured, or held in place, between the fitting on the head and the centre piece because it is solid straight piece and the end fittings are fixed. As soon as you cut the tube there is nothing holding it in the fittings.

But if you can figure a way around that, the routing you suggest would work very well and would easy to do. All the flow from that one head would go through the plenum.
I am starting to have second thoughts about the idea of diverting all the flow from one head through the plenum. When the coolant leaves the pump it splits and flows through each side of the engine. I am sure the Honda engineers tuned it so that the flow was close to equal to each side. Now it you mess with one side, put extra lengths of hoses and flowing to a higher elevation, you will increase the resistance to flow on that side. The coolant will take the path of least resistance and flow more through the unmolested side.

I don't think you want to mess with the basic operation of the cooling system or you might fry your engine. Or at least half your engine.

So I think it would be better to leave the OEM system as-is and then tap into it and run a parallel path through the plenum.

Yes, that thought crossed my mind too.
But I can't really imagine intercepting one side flow and let it go through a plenum heater will change the resistance that much. Especially if I use fat hose to go over fittings as Joe suggested.
Of course I need to monitor head temp diligently until I am sure the head is adequately cooled under the most severe condition.

Unless of course, some one already tried this and cooked the engine as a result.

 

[canuckxxxx]

skiri251 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:34 am[/url]":358f4dx5]

canuckxxxx » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:50 am[/url]":358f4dx5]
One thing that I did that made it way easier to work on the top of the engine was to remove that big heat shield. There is no turning back for me because I removed it with tin snips.

Anyway if you do that, all those coolant pipes are easily accessible. It really was not hard at all to remove all that plumbing, clean it really good, drill and tap a hole on the end of the centre section and put a barbed fitting in. I happened to have a gasket set for my '82 that had the 4 O-rings for the tubes from the heads, a big O-ring for the T-stat, and a small O-ring for the coolant bypass at the base of the T-stat housing and the 2 gaskets for the elbows that bolt to the heads...you will need to source all those. You don't have to remove the radiator.

That fitting would be the supply for your plenum. You could make the return at the T-stat housing. I had considered doing that on mine but figured I would get more flow putting the return down at the pump but I don't know that the T-stat location wouldn't have worked. I believe others have used that location with good results.

Brian

I browsed your single carb thread.
Good idea to put a plate at the water pump housing.
I didn't find the reason why you switched from bolted pipe to welded one.
More flow?

As for permanently removing the heat shield, no, it's really bad here in southern California. My legs will be slow cooked to a barbeque.

I admit I am just lazy for some reason.
I went through dropping the engine to replace failed stator. I have removed the radiator twice.

The reasons I welded the piece of pipe onto the side of that plate is because I was having a whole bunch of aluminum welding done closing in my plenum bottom that I it was easy to just have it welded. The other reason is that piece of pipe is 1/2" OD, 3/8" ID so I could use 1/2" heater hose from the plenum down to the pump suction. I checked this AM and a 1/8" NPT tap is about 3/8 on the outside of the threads so, if you drill the hole through to plate right in the middle, you could tap it to 1/8" NPT and screw in a barbed fitting. But I think the biggest barbed fitting you could get for 1/8" NPT is 3/8" (not 1/2").

But I bet a 3/8" hose would work just fine. On mine I ended up using 3/8" hose for the feed to the plenum so there probably wasn't much benefit to using 1/2" hose for the return.

If you make the plate to go down by the pump; use 1/2" thick plate (can't think of any reason why you couldn't use steel plate here). Use a 1 5/8" hole saw to make the big hole. Then set the rad hose fitting on top and line up the big holes and then mark the small holes and outside shape. Then a whole bunch of hacksawing and filing.

Brian

 

[skiri251]

joedrum » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:32 am[/url]":l4hi4x0p]
well its how the CC manifold hooks up .. to the coolant system ...the CC set up is the best ever mass produce and did what it claimed .. I am not going to argue much with that success record ... they are prized set ups for sure

Joe, are you referring to canuckxxxx's way of hookup here?

 

[skiri251]

canuckxxxx » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:15 am[/url]":gy7cn789]
The reasons I welded the piece of pipe onto the side of that plate is because I was having a whole bunch of aluminum welding done closing in my plenum bottom that I it was easy to just have it welded. The other reason is that piece of pipe is 1/2" OD, 3/8" ID so I could use 1/2" heater hose from the plenum down to the pump suction. I checked this AM and a 1/8" NPT tap is about 3/8 on the outside of the threads so, if you drill the hole through to plate right in the middle, you could tap it to 1/8" NPT and screw in a barbed fitting. But I think the biggest barbed fitting you could get for 1/8" NPT is 3/8" (not 1/2").

But I bet a 3/8" hose would work just fine. On mine I ended up using 3/8" hose for the feed to the plenum so there probably wasn't much benefit to using 1/2" hose for the return.

If you make the plate to go down by the pump; use 1/2" thick plate (can't think of any reason why you couldn't use steel plate here). Use a 1 5/8" hole saw to make the big hole. Then set the rad hose fitting on top and line up the big holes and then mark the small holes and outside shape. Then a whole bunch of hacksawing and filing.

Brian

I happened to have 1-5/8" hole saw I used for the runners. But my cheapo HF drill press got 1/3 HP motor so it's hard to drill through thick steel plate. But can be done. :hihihi:

> Then a whole bunch of hacksawing and filing.

Yes, that's my favorite way of manufacturing. :hihihi:

 

[joedrum]

post thirty six and around it talke of it
viewtopic.php?f=107&t=7389&start=30

 

[canuckxxxx]

skiri251 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:30 am[/url]":3guubley]

canuckxxxx » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:15 am[/url]":3guubley]
The reasons I welded the piece of pipe onto the side of that plate is because I was having a whole bunch of aluminum welding done closing in my plenum bottom that I it was easy to just have it welded. The other reason is that piece of pipe is 1/2" OD, 3/8" ID so I could use 1/2" heater hose from the plenum down to the pump suction. I checked this AM and a 1/8" NPT tap is about 3/8 on the outside of the threads so, if you drill the hole through to plate right in the middle, you could tap it to 1/8" NPT and screw in a barbed fitting. But I think the biggest barbed fitting you could get for 1/8" NPT is 3/8" (not 1/2").

But I bet a 3/8" hose would work just fine. On mine I ended up using 3/8" hose for the feed to the plenum so there probably wasn't much benefit to using 1/2" hose for the return.

If you make the plate to go down by the pump; use 1/2" thick plate (can't think of any reason why you couldn't use steel plate here). Use a 1 5/8" hole saw to make the big hole. Then set the rad hose fitting on top and line up the big holes and then mark the small holes and outside shape. Then a whole bunch of hacksawing and filing.

Brian

I happened to have 1-5/8" hole saw I used for the runners. But my cheapo HF drill press got 1/3 HP motor so it's hard to drill through thick steel plate. But can be done. :hihihi:

> Then a whole bunch of hacksawing and filing.

Yes, that's my favorite way of manufacturing. :hihihi:

I kept the hole saw drenched with WD40 and turned it over when I got half way through.

 

[skiri251]

joedrum » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:40 am[/url]":1tvby398]
post thirty six and around it talke of it
viewtopic.php?f=107&t=7389&start=30

Completely missed that thread.

so CC coolant flow is like this?

then, what about this for not modifying the center piece?

 

[joedrum]

when the CC manifold was installed the center section was cut just behind and before where crossover tubes come into to it ... I think the hose that fits the head elbow fits the the center section cut too ...but the manifold has elbow built into it making the hose strait hook up