My build (another one)

[Ansimp]

Glad to see that you have a new run around Ian and also that your Stateside trip was excellent. :good: :clapping: :salute:

 

[ianstaley]

Denver » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:38 am[/url]":htkx55r2]
Any that i've taken off, are of the typical type of thread, :yes: left loosen, right tighten. :hihihi:

Okay so thanks for that info, will go up to my garage and get them off today I hope. :yes:

 

[ianstaley]

Hi guys and galls of course, so not done much recently, as getting the cam pulleys off was a problem. Which way to go, so I made a small tool, I cut a piece of steel tubing I had lying around about 1 1/2" to go into one of the holes in the cam pulley, I welded a piece of round bar I had but first I bent one end 90 degrees and about 6" long and the other end about 4", put the tube in the hole in the pulley and well what do you know I got the bolts out and the pulleys are off.

Next step the heads, okay so I have taken out the head bolts and the small bolt under the heads and the spark plugs out so now the heads are free, yeah right. they feel like they have been welded on, I have a rubber dead blow hammer should be easy uh huh. Not moving, nothing, I don't get it. Almost every engine I have done in the past, the heads or head has come free with little effort, short sharp clonk on a solid bit and they came off.

Not this bugger, I don't want to hit any harder in case I damage the head ally in some small but significant way. I am getting to the stage of using a flat screwdriver where the gasket join is and attack it from there and I know it is going to be the easiest way to scrap a head. so that's why I am here yet again asking for help from the brethren. So I am considering using my gas torch (propane) to gently warm the head side of the engine, just around the gasket mark and when warmed a bit give it another clonk with the dead weight hammer (has a rubber face and filled with shot) or do we have another idea.

What I will say is it is testament to the quality of the original build that without any support from the head bolts it isn't moving. Have I missed something a hidden bolt some where, I have removed six on each side and the small bolt under the head. I have a spare pair of heads in the garage and they look great so they must come of easy no nicks from a screwdriver or a drift to be seen.

So guys any one with some ideas as I KNOW you have done this a thousand times, this is my first on the Honda, Triumph, BSA easy CB Honda 160 no problem but these it feels like they are cast in concrete. :beg:

 

[joedrum]

with the intakes holes filled with wood dole of close to same size back with 2x4 ...same on other side ...use hydralic jack and pump ..most time both will go ..bronko just did this a few months ago from the plan ..wood wont hurt head ....make so it squares good with jack its coming off ...if the other head dose screw loose head down and get the other loose

 

[joedrum]

but use rubber sledge first ...nothing like a heavy soft one :builder: on the wood doles in intake

 

[Denver]

Propane heat may help. :yes: Could be someone else was there, reused the head gasket's with glue. :headscratch:

 

[ianstaley]

Denver » Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:09 am[/url]":2eqhxjrz]
Propane heat may help. :yes: Could be someone else was there, reused the head gasket's with glue. :headscratch:

No I don't think that someone used gasket glue as the bike had only done 1700 kilometres when I bought her, so in fact she is or was almost new, going to have to do what Joe suggests bits of wood and try to pressurise it off, although I have also been told today maybe gentle heat might work so that is the first one I will ry, wood second.

Thanks guys :thanks:

 

[slabghost]

I'd hit ports with a wooden dowel as a punch.

 

[dan filipi]

Just wanted to mention that little bolt on the bottom of the head. I missed it once.

 

[joedrum]

just make sure all force is strait off there is alinement pins for about a 1/2" protruding out of block

 

[ianstaley]

dan filipi » Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:09 pm[/url]":ahh1hnt1]
Just wanted to mention that little bolt on the bottom of the head. I missed it once.

No I got that one, I too have been victim of the hidden bolt story. Yesterday I was in town waiting for Lis my wife, behind me was a learner biker and he was giving the starter a lot ow work to do, he tried everything even kick-starting it, until I got out of the car and took a look and said to him your side stand is still down, he looked at me with that sort of how stupid can I get look, flipped the stand up and the bike started first time. We all make mistakes only sometime we make BIG mistakes usually when there is a crowd. :swoon:

 

[OldWrench]

Do you have the ability to pressurize the cylinders? If so I would pressurize both cylinders and then use your rubber mallet to unseat the head. I would put two head bolts back in just enough to keep the head in place once it breaks free.

I would not use a screwdriver to separate the head from the block, that is a easy way to scratch the head or block surface.

One thing you might try is a thin scraper if you can slip the gasket.

Or you could just put it all back together, but not put the head bolts in and start the engine, just kidding that's a real bad idea.

 

[joedrum]

:hihihi: LOL...

 

[ianstaley]

I have a compressor but my geny at the garage isn't big enough to run the compressor on site. as the engine is devoid of any frame, I need to strip and paint the block and heads. so all I have is the engine strapped down to one of my Bike jacks. What I might try is to turn the engine on the bike jack, easy enough and then strap the engine down not only to the bike lift that it is on but to the bike hydraulic bike table so it becomes one big strapped weight. I have here a long hydraulic shaft, sort of thing that is used in a engine hoist. I will gently heat the head and try and use the ram to shift the head a little.

I wont be using a screwdriver to prise them apart that is for sure. Worst case scenario is to take the whole engine to a workshop I know of here in Pontefract who rebuilds a lot of classic bikes Norton's and Triumph's even Honda's, it might cost me money but I know he will do the right thing, he must be 75 now so is an old school biker and restorer. When he goes the world will loose so much knowledge it won't be replaced easily. His son is worthless as an engineer, he can follow orders but doesn't have the head for original thinking.

But screwdrivers and heavy hammers don't go together and they wont be on this engine either. Worst case I will fill the cylinders with oil down the spark plug holes, I will try and get the pistons about the middle of their travel. Pour in some oil replace the plugs and try and turn the engine over with a big spanner on the crank shaft nut at the front of the engine. I am sure that with some luck it may just force the heads off enough to be able to prise them off. Good idea to replace the head bolts just a bit to stop the head from unexpected flight.

Any thoughts on using new head bolts I don't think that they are available any more from Honda (I haven't looked yet) but maybe ARP makes their own versions. If so I would go with ARP any time. I use them on my Toyota Supra and they don't give way. Anyway getting dark here now so time to hang up the keyboard for another day. :lazy:

 

[joedrum]

old head bolts are fine ....i wouldnt use crank on head removal those rods are to valuable to gamble with in any way ...

 

[dan filipi]

Agreed since gas hydro locking can bend them.

The last set I pulled that came off hard, soaking with penetrant along the gasket edge then letting it sit over night seemed to help.
I also took the cam off which gave me some hitting room for the rubber mallet.

 

[OldWrench]

I agree, using hydraulics (oil in cylinder) isn't a good idea, may create damage to rods or piston and rings. Using liquid wrench or some other penetrating oil may loosen up the gaskets.

When I pulled mine I had to use a plastic mallet and tapped, (not hit hard) all the way around the head to unseat the gasket, it took a bit of work but it finally pulled lose.

 

[Ansimp]

+1 on tapping all the way around the outside. If really stuck think about a slide hammer style arrangement, just leave a couple of head bolts in loose so that you don't get attacked by a flying head.

 

[ianstaley]

dan filipi » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:45 pm[/url]":1nbhkvtq]
Agreed since gas hydro locking can bend them.

The last set I pulled that came off hard, soaking with penetrant along the gasket edge then letting it sit over night seemed to help.
I also took the cam off which gave me some hitting room for the rubber mallet.

Humm okay so using hydraulic power from the pistons is out. I have to admit I have never had so much problem with a head before, even though this is my first GL. so I will go gently gently.

I liked the flying head idea. I have since formulated another idea. as the engine is not in the frame and that is to use thick ratchet straps to hold the engine to my bike lift to ground the engine. So I will remove it from the smaller bike jack/lift and tie it down to the main lift. use a little heat to try and get it to move. Either way they will be off by the weekend.

 

[Denver]

That's the spirit :yes: