Agnus needs an operation.

[scdmarx]

She runs GREAT!, but there appears to be some excessive bleeding. There has always been a little grime. I have checked the bolts for tightness in the past, and yup they're tight as I dare with a wrench. Yesterday I could smell burnt oil. I figured it was the cars ahead of me. Today when I came out for lunch I see a small spot under Agnus. It would take about half of a dollar bill to cover the spot. When I got home this evening I took pictures of the infected area.

For your observation:

Looks to me like the gasket under the rear cover has lost the battle. It is my understanding that the engine must be removed from the frame to perform this operation. Is this correct?
Is there a tutoral here for engine removal? Is this a real difficult operation?
What advice can you offer to help me pull Agnus through this before I get started yanking her vitals? Will her center stand support her throughout the entire procedure? What other parts will I need to complete this task?

 

[joedrum]

man thats strange ive have seen one leak there ......yeah the center stand will do it if its good and level....getting the drive shaft off the motor where the boot is takes just the right pair of 90 degree snap ring pliers....getting the cables off the carbs is tough....or hanging them ......and the wiring ....its all fun :smilie_happy: :nea:

this sucks i hope the other bike is ready to ride :mrgreen:

 

[mcgovern61]

My observation of the top picture is that that leak is higher up than the bottom of that gasket. Can you see the origin of the leak where it is misting at the top?

If you need to pull the engine, it really isn't that hard. My daughters and I pull and swap engines in just under 48 hours and then back on the road. The only special tool needed is 90 degree angle snap ring pliers to get the snap ring off of the shaft.

 

[mcgovern61]

I checked my dirty '81 engine and the same area is wet (it is out of the bike on the floor). Mine is leaking at the timing access plug and the crankcase breather tube connection. It appears that as both dribbled that air from riding blew the mist back and down the left side of my engine. My crankcase collector was full of water. (You might want to check that)

 

[scdmarx]

My observation of the top picture is that that leak is higher up than the bottom of that gasket. Can you see the origin of the leak where it is misting at the top?.

No I haven't yet. It only leaks when I'm riding. (I think) Is there anything above that cover with oil?

If you need to pull the engine, it really isn't that hard. My daughters and I pull and swap engines in just under 48 hours and then back on the road. The only special tool needed is 90 degree angle snap ring pliers to get the snap ring off of the shaft.

I have a good set of those. 3 different sizes with 3 different angles, all reversable. 9 pieces in the set, total. I am a tool junkie. It peeves me to no end trying to do something with out the right tooling. A butter knife is not a screw driver, a screw driver is not a chisle, a ratchet head is not a hammer, and so on.
I cringe at the idea of balancing this motor on a jack without the right jig made just for it.

Did you use the Honda manual? If so, were there any forgotten/unmentioned details/surprises? Everything helps. :thanks:

 

[scdmarx]

I checked my dirty '81 engine and the same area is wet (it is out of the bike on the floor). Mine is leaking at the timing access plug and the crankcase breather tube connection. It appears that as both dribbled that air from riding blew the mist back and down the left side of my engine. My crankcase collector was full of water. (You might want to check that)

That's exactly what I want to hear!

Thanks!!!!!! I'll look tomorrow. arty:

 

[scdmarx]

man thats strange ive have seen one leak there ......yeah the center stand will do it if its good and level....getting the drive shaft off the motor where the boot is takes just the right pair of 90 degree snap ring pliers....getting the cables off the carbs is tough....or hanging them ......and the wiring ....its all fun :smilie_happy: :nea:

Yup, it's all fun, somes just funner'n others.

this sucks i hope the other bike is ready to ride :mrgreen:

Juuuuuuuuust about. I got the lighting squared away in the rear (I hope) and I just have to do something about some really retarded solder joints under the seat. Then I'll have to come up with some bolts I lost to attatch the bags and I'll be ready to roll. Oh ya, I need a new turn signal flasher. That tapping noise reappears just when I think it's gone. I still don't know what it is, but I'm gonna ride it easy for awhile and change the oil frequently and see if it fixes itself over time. Who knows, maybe the tank sender will start acting right.

 

[dan filipi]

It would be very strange for that seal to suddenly start leaking.
I'd clean the area real good then keep a close eye where oil first appears. My .25 cents is on something like Gerry mentioned.

 

[mcgovern61]

I cringe at the idea of balancing this motor on a jack without the right jig made just for it.

Did you use the Honda manual? If so, were there any forgotten/unmentioned details/surprises? Everything helps. :thanks:

I only have a car floor jack and when I set it just slightly forward and to the left of center, it balances pretty good.

Between the original blown '82 engine, the '81 engine from the parts bike and the newly swapped '83 engine, we have removed and installed engines in frames 5 times! I do not have a Honda manual, we just followed the nuts and bolts from the top down and they come out pretty easy. The only tricky part I experienced when the engine is coming out is to watch out for the vacuum advance, it tends to catch on the frame.

 

[scdmarx]

I sure wish it was something easier, but it's hard to argue with this.
Choke on, idle approx. 4300rpm after no more than a minute.

I'm afraid Agnus is down for awhile. DERN!

 

[dan filipi]

I sure wish it was something easier, but it's hard to argue with this.
Choke on, idle approx. 4300rpm after no more than a minute.

I'm afraid Agnus is down for awhile. DERN!

Hmm, strange there's that much oil at the engine top rear cover. The scavenger pump is suppose to pump oil from the rear cover back into the engine crankcase to keep the rear cover virtually dry of oil.
When you open her up up make sure to check that pump is clear and not damaged.

 

[scdmarx]

Hmm, strange there's that much oil at the engine top rear cover. The scavenger pump is suppose to pump oil from the rear cover back into the engine crankcase to keep the rear cover virtually dry of oil.
When you open her up up make sure to check that pump is clear and not damaged.

There, ya see? These are the kind of things I don't know. How does the oil get there to the rear cover? Is there a passage that feeds at the top and then scavenge at the bottom? Could there be a plugged screen at the bottom? Does the feed come through a hole in the case right there? Or is the rear cover filling that high with oil?

When I get the cover off I won't be content untill I physically see where the cause of the leak is. Obviously I will need that gasket. I'm thinking about clutch stuff while I'm there. Can you think off hand what else I'm gonna need to do this job or might be good to replace while the thing is out? Just looking for input. :?: :idea:

 

[dan filipi]

I had a problem with the scavenger pump not pulling the excess oil out which caused some clutch problems and studied that rear cover and oil supply.

From what I could gather there is no direct oil supply which pumps oil back there.
The clutch problem I had came from too much oil back there which caused the clutch to drag and making shifts hard. Turned out the scavenger pickup was plugged with old clutch material. Once it was clean, shifts have never been smoother.
One clue I had which helped find this problem was I got at least a 1/2 qt of oil out when removing the clutch cover. This was after draining the engine oil.
The next clue was after filling the engine to the full line and taking it for a run, after shutting it down the oil level was below 1/2.

Oil supply to the rear cover seems to come only from splash oil coming off the primary chain and runs over the clutch to help cool it.
There is a very small passage at the bottom of the rear cover which lets that oil drain into the left side of the cover where the scavenger pump is.

Where your leak is is right above the stator rotor and starter chain.
My guess is there is too much oil in the rear cover which is being sprayed up at that gasket area by the stator rotor which normally should not be happening. Possibly your clutch is coming apart plugging the pump.

 

[scdmarx]

The way you describe it, at worst, there should be no more than very minor seepage on a bad day. This means I can expect to find something definately wrong once the cover is off. Well, at least it won't be for nothing.

 

[Heath]

Mine had a minor leak in the same area. I didn't want to put her down for the summer so I bought this motorcycle gasket sealer stuff. It's gray and not really thick. I cleaned the area really well and started from the top and put this stuff on the gasket area. It kind of oozed from the top to the bottom and in one spot I had to clean up some drips. I've never had oil oozing in that area yet and it's been there for 2 1/2 years. I figure it will work until such time I pull the engine and then I can replace the gasket.

 

[toytender01]

:hi: Years ago I threw a chain on a dirt bike and broke a section out of the case in front of the sprocket. :head bang: ...I was told when I started recing ,to take off that sprocker cover and throw it away :blush: ...Obviously I didn't take the advice and it happened. :fiddle: ...however i did follow their next advicd and that was to clean it up real good and fill the hole with one of those pliumbers putty for metal. :music: ....well the stuff is still holding and does not leak :yahoo: ...So I agree with the advice about the sealer it dose work...Bob arty:

 

[scdmarx]

While I don't doubt the sealer is the right stuff for some things, at the moment I'm convinced the gasket is not the problem, only the result of something deeper that needs to be addressed. I am mentally preparing myself for this. It's been a really good bike, but now it needs to get fixed. And to me it's worth fixing. Unfortunately, this project will have to take it's place in line.

 

[toytender01]

:hi: I understand the line....unfortunatly my line is growing faster than the time i have... now it is the DA__stove then remodle the pantry and then....and then.................... :builder: :head bang: :fiddle: :heat: Bob