Can they do this to motorcycles as well???

[wilcoy02]

I can not believe they can do this to us.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/gea ... cid=LENDHP

 

[zman]

wilcoy02 » Sat May 09, 2015 7:17 pm[/url]":306tr7sq]
I can not believe they can do this to us.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/gea ... cid=LENDHP

The thing that got my attention is the comment by GM that you don't buy a car you merely buy a licence to own it forever. That is the whole argument right there, do we own it or are we borrowing it forever.
I don't think they have a leg to stand on with that.
I do not think that could apply to bikes though.

 

[AApple]

In arguing against an exemption, John Deere and General Motors have argued that motorists don't necessarily buy a car; they merely buy a license to use the car for the duration of its life.

Are you f-in kiddin me? Who the f PAYS to keep it runnin? Who the f pays for fuel, oil, tires? If I only buy a "license to use", does that mean you can revoke my license, and take my vehicle back?
I deal with some of this stoopidity daily. For instance, I cannot buy a new valve body for a transmission from Mercedes. The owner of the vehicle must purchase it directly from Mercedes, and have it installed and programed by Mercedes. It is that way for other manufacturers, too, and getting worse. They are trying to make it to where NO-ONE can work on ANY vehicle except an authorized dealer.
Now...this mess doesn't really apply to our Oldwings, but...some of ya'll also drive newer vehicles....this bs could certainly effect you on those vehicles. I seriously doubt it will ever actually come to pass, tho, as written. The aftermarket side is quite vocal, and they do carry a lot of weight. SEMA has been able to kill several bills like this in the past.

 

[slabghost]

This will be the prevailing opinion I think.

Alabama resident Drayton Green cut through the legalities and delivered a blunt assessment of potential restrictions.

"This has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard," he wrote to the Copyright Office. "I can't believe this is even a discussion. If I purchase a car, I own it. The freedom to do whatever I want to it is provided by my constitutional rights. Simple as that."

If that doesn't work then I see a new market opening for kit vehicles. :good:

 

[Steve83]

I'll just keep my 30 year-old bike and 20 year-old cars. There are some nice new vehicles out there, but if I'm gonna spend $20k or more on a car, it's gonna be an amazing 1967 Mustang! The only thing electronic in it will be the audio system.

 

[Omega Man]

This would mean the end of all too many automotive DIY industries to list and millions of lost jobs. I don't see this happening.

~O~

 

[brianinpa]

The Government has done some stranger things, so nothing would surprise me.

 

[Denver]

Stupid things?? Cash for clunkers went by & nothing was done. Has anybody read what it entailed??? Everything regularly recycled HAD TO BE SCRAPPED. no used parts could be salvaged, & resold. Talk about BIG BROTHER, dictation what kind of a country have we became??? Nothing to be proud of, for just how long now?? We have become the laughing stock of the world, our enemies are emboldened & our friends are frightened by our STUPIDITY!!!!!!!!

 

[Terry]

$20K what kinda new car can you buy for $20K maybe Kia junk or an econo box of some sort. Any way, this the modern progression. Bit by bit our privacy stolen, authentic ownership of vehicles is diminished.

Think of EDR's (Electronic Data Recorders) standard equipment in late model vehicles similar to the tattle tell plug in devices that most current insurance industry push for discounted rates.
The premise is for accident evidence etc. but more is coming.
OnStar and all the similar big three satellite technology system track for many reasons some may eventually include information related to warranty coverage and even denial for neglect, abuse and so on.

With more and more stringent state inspection regulations "smog impact emissions" the phase out of older vehicles is likely on the horizon.
In the name of efficiency and features owner repair and home maintenance is being slowly but surely eliminated.

I'm not being paranoid, just a realist. Dealerships employing "certified technicians" make mega bucks on labor and parts.

 

[Ansimp]

Terry » Mon May 11, 2015 4:47 am[/url]":2w1h6mt5]
$20K what kinda new car can you buy for $20K maybe Kia junk or an econo box of some sort. Any way, this the modern progression. Bit by bit our privacy stolen, authentic ownership of vehicles is diminished.

Think of EDR's (Electronic Data Recorders) standard equipment in late model vehicles similar to the tattle tell plug in devices that most current insurance industry push for discounted rates.
The premise is for accident evidence etc. but more is coming.
OnStar and all the similar big three satellite technology system track for many reasons some may eventually include information related to warranty coverage and even denial for neglect, abuse and so on.

With more and more stringent state inspection regulations "smog impact emissions" the phase out of older vehicles is likely on the horizon.
In the name of efficiency and features owner repair and home maintenance is being slowly but surely eliminated.

I'm not being paranoid, just a realist. Dealerships employing "certified technicians" make mega bucks on labor and parts.

+1 :yes:

 

[tom foreman]

same with guns..they can try..mine in left hand..throttle of wing in right hand.period..no-exceptions...just saying. :moped: :sensored: people. :salute: have a beer and chill-out.these people in government need a drink,most of the time. :salute:

 

[Denver]

People in government need to get a real job. The pres has never worked for a living like soooo many of our leaders, & look at how well that has turned out. Why can't we get someone who has worked with their hands into the mix?? A community organizer doesn't have the insight or any real sight of what's going on in the world.

 

[AApple]

I kinda see the rationalization of wanting to protect your software, which is what this is really about. But......once the vehicle is out of warranty, the manufacturer no longer has ANY claim on the vehicle...period. Folks have been re-writing software for computerized vehicles since they first came out in the late '80s. In fact, ALL of the major manufacturers have updated software DAILY for every vehicle they produce, which means they dint get it right to start with. Does "Windows" ring a bell? :help:
A disturbing number of recalls, and TSBs issued by the manufacturers involve software updates, not hardware failures. While the major manufacturers employ some of the brightest programers, there are many more that are smarter, and can re-write software to make it more user-friendly to the consumer, along with improving performance AND fuel mileage. THIS is where the issue with folks digging into code makes the manufacturers quiver, and cry "FOUL!". GM et-al has to provide programing that works in vehicles all over the world. so the same programing for a car in the deserts of Nevada will start and run the same as one in the UP of Michigan. A daunting task, to say the least. But why should the guy in Florida have to be stuck with programing written for -30 degree weather? Why should he not be able to go in and change a few parameters on a fuel map that will provide better fuel economy and performance once the car is out of warranty? What aboot the hot rodders that use later model drivetrains in their '34 Fords? Why can't they eliminate all of the seatbelt interfaces, and wiper motor inputs for the PCM that they don't need?
Why? "Because I built it, and I say YOU can't change ANYTHING!". In Texas, the law states that the vehicle's emissions and safety equipment must match the year of engine manufacture, so, if you install a late model drivetrain/PCM set-up in your '47 Willys yeep, the vehicle MUST pass emissions/safety regs for whatever year the engine is. So...how the hell do you put an airbag on a '47 Willys?
Since 2010, you can't even go to a salvage yard and buy a used PCM and install it in your vehicle, because the security software is already written to the PCM for ONE vehicle ONLY. Installed in any other vehicle, it will instantly FRY the PCM, rendering it useless. So, now that PCM is not gunna work, I'll stick the old one back in and try something else. Not....putting even your ORIGINAL PCM back in the vehicle will automatically render it useless, too. So now you have TWO pos computers, and a dead vehicle. Afaik, the ONLY people able to get the coding/programing to install new PCMs in situations like this are licensed locksmiths. We have a mobile programer that comes to the shop the program/update PCMs in some of the vehicles we work on. They have the licenses to do it, but even they are having more and more trouble getting programing for later model cars from the manufacturers.

As I stated earlier, I doubt seriously that this exemption thing will go thru in favor of the manufacturers. Besides...when's the last time ya seen a friggin JOHN DEERE on street tires rolling down the boulevard on cruize night? :smilie_happy: :mrgreen:

 

[zman]

Like everything in politics it comes to pass in little pieces, small regulations you would hardly notice and are piled up after 10 some years to equal a whole lot of bull no one likes or would vote for..
This is why insignificant little incursions into the free market has to be stopped cold before the ball starts rolling or rolls any further.
It is to our own detriment we allow things to pass unnoticed and unchallenged.
Sorry to hear about your ridiculous Tx. motor vehicle laws, thought Texas would be the last bastion of freedom.

 

[Omega Man]

Joel, how do the guys at Gas Monkey Garage put new motors and drivetrains in their old cars?

 

[Dusterdude]

They sell em,have you ever seen a gas monkey car with a legit texas plate on it?

 

[Terry]

Dusterdude » Today, 6:13 pm[/url]":32drz8hy]
They sell em,have you ever seen a gas monkey car with a legit texas plate on it?

Umm:

Yes, and now you can order their Texas plates too.


Gas Monkey Garage
Good news, TX GMG fans! The design for the Gas Monkey Street-Legal License plates has been APPROVED by the TxDMV Board! If we receive 200 orders on MyPlates.com by April 1, our plates are a GO! If we don't meet the 200-order minimum by the deadline, the plates won't be released. Weird rules, but we've got to play by them! Order now and let's monkify the streets of Texas! A portion of the proceeds benefit Gas Monkey Foundation. (plates available for motorcycles, too) https://bit.ly/buygmgplates

 

[ekvh]

Politics. Constitution? Try showing up at the border with your car or bike to take with you to another country. You can have the car, the title, the bill of sale, the blessing of the Pope, but without the proper forms from the U.S. Census Bureau, that's right the Census Bureau, you aren't going anywhere. Ask how at the border and they steer you to a "broker" who charges a hefty fee? Try to do it yourself and you have to read about 40 pages, take an online test, to prove you understand it, wait for approval, then hopefully figure it out. When you go to print it, you must have one of two recommended browsers for it to work. I didn't have the right browsers so I had to rent time on a computer to do it. This must be done 72 hours in advance. I did this, after several calls for help, many of which I gave up on after waiting 30-40 minutes. I was told all was good and NOT to call the border,must show up and it would be there. I showed up, it wasn't there. Luckily for me I knew personally both guys working that day and after an hour or so, I was given the proper papers to take MY bikes with me.

I do understand the need for stopping theft, but why are we paying money for a title, if it means didleysquat?? We buy it, we maintain it, we buy plates and registration and insurance, but it's not ours.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[Denver]

One thing to remember; :Awe: We have the finest politicions that money can buy. :thank_you:

 

[AApple]

Omega Man » Mon May 11, 2015 12:32 pm[/url]":1sq0aapf]
Joel, how do the guys at Gas Monkey Garage put new motors and drivetrains in their old cars?

They sell em...

Yeah...that's part of it. I have to assume that any of those turds are registered as Classics, or Antiques, which would lessen the burden on emissions related crap. Of course, ya have to unnerstand that GMG don't actually own those cars, so they don't have to worry aboot the registrations, or inspections, even tho, again, Texas law states the vehicle must be registrable, except in cases of salvage/parts usage.
It also depends a LOT on WHO does the inspection. If ya gots a friend that does that sorta thing, it's not an issue....wink-wink-nudge-nudge... :blush:

The original topic, which has to do with copyright on proprietary software, certainly comes into play, since PCMs on "custom" vehicles such as the GMG stuff most certainly have modified software in the modules. The exemption deal, if upheld, would in effect eliminate the ability for ANYONE to change the programing on anything....which is what the big stink is all about.