GL1000 Solid-Core Wire - notes

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Glanced through some other threads about secondary wires and thought I'd post about some things I've noticed in my own endeavors.

First, there's the original ignition wire itself. 7mm steel stuff. Not copper. Not steel-clad copper. The section of ignition wire is from my 1000 and is original to the bike. I've kept the coils in case I ever needed some reference from them. The following pics show some interesting things and I've taken the best pictures that I can to show you what I see as it's in front of me. I'll update this thread as time allows to show other things I've noticed particular to running a hot ignition and what happens to factory wires when the voltage is increased.

Top to bottom is:
1) Scosche 8ga. amplifier power cable
2) emergency jumper cable wire - the kind a bank gives with those "emergency" kits when a new account is opened
3) factory Honda negative battery cable wire
4) GL1000 ignition wire
Stormy4 020.jpg


Ok, so lets look at this stuff.

The factory ignition wire is on the left, the Scosche 8ga. is on the right. The other two we'll dismiss from here out. The jumper cable stuff is junk, and the battery cable stuff is not as good as the Scosche.
Stormy4 031.jpg


If we look at the Honda ignition wire closely, we see that there is two different compounds of the wire, which is steel wire. Look closely and you can see where the tighter twist starts and it remains uniform in its twist to the end of the wire. This section has nothing to do with the plug caps being twisted onto the wire, in case you're deciding that it does.

Stormy4 042.jpg


In looking further, we can see a strange way in which TEC has made this stuff. The wire is twisted and crimped periodically and in a uniform way for some reason. I don't know what that reason is, but when looked at closely I see the crimp marks of the tighter twisted sections. I assume that it something to do with the manufacturing processes of the late 1970's.
Stormy4 043.jpg


The crimp marks are more easily seen here when I seperate the 7 strands of steel wire:
(see this photo below in the next post. I'm outta room here.)

The jacket of the Honda wire is indeed 7mm. A fair amount of jacketing for so little wire. High Voltage needs this type of thick insulation. There is something called "skin effect". Essentially this means that most all of the voltage present travels along the outside of the wire. The thick insulation attempts to keep surrounding avenues of ground away from the wire. This we all know.
Stormy4 038.jpg


Ok, the above just shows some things I've noticed with the stock ignition wire.
Below we'll look at the Scosche 8ga. oxygen-free amplifier power cable.

The "oxygen-free" part of the Scosche cable requires additional steps in its manufacture. Looking close at the pics above of the factory stuff we see that the inner rubber compound is not bonded to the wire. Is this important? We'll talk about that later... Looking closely at the Scosche wire and we see that it is. This is important if running your ignition hot and triple the factory voltage.

We cut away the jacket and we see a substantial amount of copper wire:
Stormy4 045.jpg


Then we start to see how it is built:
Stormy4 046.jpg


Then we do a strand count:
Stormy4 047.jpg


We'll get to this strand count some time later as well.

We also see that this wire is 6.5mm versus the 7mm of the factory stuff. Important, but not right now:
Stormy4 037.jpg


This is what makes it important right now versus later, the water-tight seal tha 6.5mm gives when used with new NGK plug caps:
Stormy4 034.jpg
 
Don't worry about the plug cap being straight instead of angled. I'm out of the angled caps and have straights. Good enough for a photo, as they are both the same.
These caps, ...there's an issue here that doesn't get discussed. I'll assume we all know that the new NGK caps are not meant to be taken apart so that the resistors can be removed. The picture below clearly shows that the usual slotted clip for the plug is no longer there:
Stormy4 022.jpg


The issue is the availability of dual-clip screws. If running higher voltages, these are best. The more surface contact to the plug the better. A modification for the plug caps. The dual clip screws are found throughout the older CB's, KZ's, GS's and various Yamaha's with the larger engines of the late 70's and up to the late 80's. They may be available in other years and other models but this is where I find them.
Stormy4 033.jpg


The factory Nichiwa plug boots are servicable and well worth rebuilding using the dual-clip screws and some copper-clad steel pins replacing the resistors if running a hot ignition. New NGK caps aren't really necessary and finding the old-style with removeable screws may be hard now.
Stormy4 021.jpg


...from the first post above:
The crimp marks are more easily seen here when I seperate the 7 strands of steel wire:
(see the photo in the next post. I'm outta room on this one.)
The photo:
Stormy4 044.jpg


Well, this all I've prepared so far. Some serious voltage can be run, and it can be run to the plug reliably, day-in and day-out. I'll hit some detail on some of the posted stuff up above that is pertinent, at least to my bike, later. If big, consistant spark is of interest to anyone, I'll show what I've found. "Why so much spark?" Well, my cylinder pressures are about to go up and I could use it.
...
 
Interesting. Wouldn't we get the hottest spark the ignition has to offer from the plug wires if we eliminated the resistor caps?
They become necessary if we have a sound system or computers on board but for those of us who prefer the sound of the motor over music. It seems to me regular car wire ends would deliver the most spark to the plugs. :headscratch:
 
Hmm speaker wire eh?
Not much for insulation to ground, especially with hotter coils.

Fat wire with lots of conductor (copper core) doesn't necessarily make it better or even necessary.
There is a big difference between the current a speaker wire needs to carry versus a spark plug wire.
Spark plugs run at high voltage therefore a smaller conductor is sufficient.
 
ONe note about spark plug resistors: the resistor dampens the noise from the spark pluf for your sound equipment BUT it alsodampens it for those vehicals and sound equipmentr that is around you. :Egyptian: :Egyptian: :Egyptian:
 
David Mantle":2a87zgyo said:
And I just thought all HT leads were the same. I have learned something new from this. Many thanks for the insight.

Thanks Dave, ...more to come as I get more time to post. I've spent a lot of time looking for simple, reliable and effective high voltage from the stock coils.
 
slabghost":1t28b6h4 said:
Interesting. Wouldn't we get the hottest spark the ignition has to offer from the plug wires if we eliminated the resistor caps?

Eliminating the resuistor plug caps will give us higher spark voltages.

slabghost":1t28b6h4 said:
They become necessary if we have a sound system or computers on board but for those of us who prefer the sound of the motor over music. It seems to me regular car wire ends would deliver the most spark to the plugs. :headscratch:

Though secondary resistance plays a role in interference, it is not the sole, or sometimes even the primary contributor to "noise" eminating from the ignition system. The fly-back voltage from the input on the primary side dictates what will be "heard" from the secondary side spark event.
What I work at and have tried to push is "system resistance" versus working with just one aspect of resistance in the system. Those who remove the cap resistors and do nothing more may very well have "noise" issues.
 
dan filipi":1si1vsrm said:
Hmm speaker wire eh?
8 gauge power/ground cable. Speaker wire is generally smaller.

dan filipi":1si1vsrm said:
Not much for insulation to ground, especially with hotter coils.
No, not much as it is. I add insulating material. I've tried combinations of surgical tubing and PVC tubing, settling for just the PVC tubing for now. If there is any oxidation to be found, then I want to see it as best I can while the stuff is installed.

dan filipi":1si1vsrm said:
Fat wire with lots of conductor (copper core) doesn't necessarily make it better or even necessary.
1) Copper is a better conductor than steel.
2) More conductors are alway better than fewer.
3) 1 & 2 make it better.
4) It is necessary when I melt the rubber of factory wire.

dan filipi":1si1vsrm said:
There is a big difference between the current a speaker wire needs to carry versus a spark plug wire.
I don't know where you're going here. There are differences, yes. How are they relevant to each other though?

dan filipi":1si1vsrm said:
Spark plugs run at high voltage therefore a smaller conductor is sufficient.
One example is: as with the coils, the secondary wire needs to dissipate heat as well. One good reason for a high strand count is the ability to do this "better" than seven strands of steel wire. The cross-sectional area of the 8ga. Scosche has many benefits.
 
toytender01":syp5151c said:
ONe note about spark plug resistors: the resistor dampens the noise from the spark pluf for your sound equipment BUT it alsodampens it for those vehicals and sound equipmentr that is around you. :Egyptian: :Egyptian: :Egyptian:

If looking at total system resistance with respect to the fly-back voltage at input and how it is dealt with on the secondary side, no resistance will be necessary to combat sparkplug "noise" (or electrical "pulse") if it is not there to begin with. A balance is all that is required.

...what goes in does come out...
 
All this over a conductor to fire a plug. 99% of the cars and trucks use graphite impregnated string with no issues at all.
 
slabghost":1sjtdcbl said:
All this over a conductor to fire a plug. 99% of the cars and trucks use graphite impregnated string with no issues at all.

All of this is with stock GL1100 coils.
22Kv is pretty good out of stock coils. I'm triggering with a Dyna III right now using solid copper wire with very little system resistance.

I have a radio on my bike. A CycleSound pod. The radio in it is original to the bike when it was all put together back when it was purchased new. It's an old Phase Linear two-knob shaft radio.
Most of my bike is period to 1978. The self-cancelling turn signal mod cheats that theme by a couple years I think. I choose not to look at it too closely.
Even my trip computer is period to 1978. An incredible find on eBay. NOS on the computer was like hitting the mother-lode.
So, I'm doing to the bike today what could have been done back in 1978- 1979, '80, '81, '82, etc., ...plus a couple years doesn't kill me now. I was stuck on "1978" for a couple years. I've lighten-up a bit. Not many of us hot-rod something right off the showroom floor. It usually takes a couple years before we get to doing that on a new ride.
My carb conversion included. It could've been done exactly as it is today, ...back in '78. I've a source for NOS carburetors.
Same with my exhaust, same with my ignition.
I've stuck with the theme of the bike being somewhat period to many years ago pretty well. I like the fact that I'm riding a old bike, an old Goldwing at that. It takes me back some years. Clicky-button LED mileage read-out trip computer, shaft radio knobs, my all-metal Super Vista Cruise throttle lock, and especially my pre-'78 Hippo Hands from Craig Vetter (who made my fairing). Craig made a instrument pod that fits in where the radio goes. I will get one sooner or later. He tells me to watch eBay, so I watch eBay for one. I do a lot of testing and I could really use one. At least I don't have to make a instrrument pod, ...he already did, and it will be period to the bike. Craig is awsome.

So, did they have graphited string ignition wire back in them days? Is that what they were running at the track back in them days? What were the street racing crowd running? When the plug voltage was cranked-up, what was the solution? What did they do back during that period? I don't know what the percentage of the variables were. I was 12 years old in 1980 and my Old-Man has past-on now, so I've got to figure it out on my own now.

My old Phase Linear pod-radio has no noise in it from my ignition once tuned on-frequency (it is an old shaft analog radio after all). With the bike running and sitting next to my 2012 Honda Civic, the car doesn't even know it is there electrically. A PLL-locked newer radio doesn't see the bike either. This "noise" issue is a dead issue with what I'm running and how I'm running it. I've got max voltage from stock coils and it is quiet. It's quiet because it is right. My ignition will live a long life as it is, at 22Kv peak at idle, if I do nothing else.
Because they had Nitrous Oxide back then, and I'm going to run 2 stages of it with 5 different injection points, I'm going to need all the voltage I can get. I'm going to run it reliably and without worry.

That's really what this all about, ..ME, trying to shut my spark down in the chamber. I bet I can't do it when all is said and done. I'm trying to share in doing it. No big deal.
 
Graphite wires in new cars work because new cars have much higher voltage. The carbon in the wires burns up fast. I had to replace wires yearly in my Buick until I switched to spiral copper. I bought a set for a v8 and had enough left for my wing. I would like all the pop I can get for the Wing. I am bumping up compression some on my next project and would like to find a cheap reliable source of coils and wires to pass a bigger spark at lower rpm. I'm all ears. Too bad the speaker wire is so spendy.
 
ekvh":1myn0zfi said:
Graphite wires in new cars work because new cars have much higher voltage. The carbon in the wires burns up fast. I had to replace wires yearly in my Buick until I switched to spiral copper. I bought a set for a v8 and had enough left for my wing. I would like all the pop I can get for the Wing. I am bumping up compression some on my next project and would like to find a cheap reliable source of coils and wires to pass a bigger spark at lower rpm. I'm all ears. Too bad the speaker wire is so spendy.

A friend of mine, Jeremy, had a car with a sound system in it. I never new of the car because he had gotten rid of it before I had met him. He pulled the system out when he sold the car though. He has taken interest in what I'm doing to my GL. He has seen the bike evolve. I tell him my plan of attack on the ignition and he says he has some wire that might fit the bill. We go over to his garage and he digs out this dusty box of the old stereo system stuff. Pulls out a tangled roll of blue cable and says, "...here man, you can have this...".

I'm thinking, "...hey man, you and this **** here is Great!", but I say, "Ok, we'll try it.".

I'm lucky to have friends, but I work at it. So maybe it ain't luck after all.
 
I'm not much of a mod type person (Stock is hard enough for me to keep up with), but I envy your drive to to this work!

I just watched the movie, "The Worlds Fastest Indian" the other day. If you have not seen it, (it is based on a true story) the idea is incredible! The main character has been working on his 1920's Indian motorcycle and for 40 years or so has made mods that allowed the bike to reach speeds in excess of 200 MPH and made world speed records!

Same bike all along!
 
Thanks Gerry. I have not seen the movie yet. Last bike-related show I watched had Ewan McGregor and Charlie ...somebody... riding a couple of BMW's around the World. I forget the name of it now. Something "World" something...
 

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