Painters - lil help?

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Pony Ruiz

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Hey, Hey.

I'm trying slowly but surely to learn to paint - the "right" way.
I've got 3 bikes - all need paint. You tube and I have teamed up of late.

I know this ain't right but I am trying to finish what I started - which is using duplicolor can paint with a 2k can clear. Doing some skins for my 78.


Next time I am going to use a spray gun with primer surfacer. I am assuming that it is thicker and I will be able to sand all the imperfections out without sanding through the primer - which is what happened with the rattle can. My eyes ain't what they used to be, but damn those little imperfections are hard to see. the primer was black - i'm thinkin that wasn't helping any. How would you prep the plastic skins for the primer? I sanded the ones I am doing now with 320 then put some bondo on in places. I got a little carried away with it. All I really wanted to do was remove the pinstripes. I basically scuffed it with 320.

Also,

I don't have a proper spray gun yet. Any recommendations? I don't want to go H.Freight, but I don't want to spend $800 either. Would you go with one good gun and several tips or 2 lesser quality guns each with different tips. I have a 60gal compressor - good there. Watched a few vids on how to set one up for spraying.

Thanks.
 
The professionals all use a guide coat ( different colour primer or even thinned out colour) so that when you are sanding it is obvious that you have gone too far. Biggest mistake we amateurs make is too use too coarse of grade sandpaper and then sand too aggressively.
 
I used to work ar a paint shop years ago, I did the stripping,assembly, Filler ,sand and prep, color sanding and buffing. Everything but the paint booth, Did spray a couple bike in there myself.
Anyways you will want a gravity feed gun the best you can afford, Far as primer goes there is primer and then there is primer filler, both spray on. The filler goes on thicker to fill in minor imperfections that you can sand out, primer as you know needs an already perfect surface.
Small plastic bike parts don't give you the opportunity to use body files,cheese graters, D/A sanders..Hand/ block sanding is about the only option so as you know go light on filler..Easier to add more then take it off.
Not sure if pink Bondo brand has changed any, we used a green filler that knocked down easy sanded very nice but firm enough for filler,never had to use a spotting putty with the green stuff..I cant remember the brand name of it, never bought it and didn't need to maybe it will come back to me.
Hope that helps some.
 
get a cheap gun for the primer. That stuff can be bear on guns and hard to clean out. Spray the primer /filler on let it dry and spray a light coat of black over it. Once all the black is gone you know you have a smooth coat. Finish sand with 1200 grit paper then be sure to clean off with a tack cloth before color coat.
 
Next year I am going to repaint with Colorite paint (rattle can) since I do not have a sprayer. They have great instructions and offer OEM paint colors. I spoke with them on the phone (very helpful BTW) and they will walk you through the process. They do offer that their paint system will produce an OEM paint job. They do say a spray gun produces the absolute best result, but their rattle can version is very close.

For their system, it is all in the prep of the surface. Wet sanding with 1000 grit for smoothness and then follow their system. With their product, there is no wet sanding between color and clear. Final wet sanding (if needed at all) is after the clear has cured.

https://www.colorrite.com/

https://www.colorrite.com/bulletins/Aero ... ctions.pdf

https://www.colorrite.com/bulletins/Prim ... ctions.pdf
 
In my humble opinion as an amateur painter (spray) I have done a friends Varadera plastic (fairing etc) , first thing don't use to fine a paper either, I find max 800 grit wet and dry to start with, when you have it rubbed down I use a very light satin black spray as a tell tail layer. just a quick fine spray, I then use 800 grit to final rub down you should see all the high and low spots, low spots being black. when your happy, I like to use a plastic promoter layer, it provides a great adhesion layer between the plastic and the paint(s).

When that is touch dry maybe an hour at most I like to put down my first primer thick coat down, just blow over for the first coat with about 75- 80% coverage. Then build the layers to about 2 to 3 layers and let it dry overnight, I like to rub my "hi build" down with at least 800 wet and dry. I may be teaching your granny to suck eggs but do let your wet and dry soak for at least 10 minuets before you use it, I like to use a small 1/2 litre hand spray bottle with clean water to keep the object and the paper clean (use it often). Now for your base coat(s), at least 2 preference is 3 coats, 2 good coats with 10 minutes between coats then the third as a wet coat, leave to dry over night. I then like to rub this down with a very fine scotch bright you will see the orange peel and you can rub it until the whole item is an equally dull over the whole surface. Then come the clear coat, again several light coats just to build the required thickness, after the third coat let is dry for about an hour, then a nice wet coat. let that dry, if you still have orange peel use the scotch bright again and then another top coat wet. let it dry then start with a cutting paste and a final polish. Hope this helps.

I use a couple of LVLP gravity sprayers, I use a cheapo gun with a 1.4 needle for the undercoat hi-build, I have another cheapish DEVILBISS SLG-610 G.P gravity feed LVLP gun for the base coat and another for the Clear. Both with a 1.3 needle. I don't mix my guns either. After use I literally strip them down to clean in Acetone.

I hope this helps a bit. Ian
 
Thanks! Yes any and all tips / info helps. I'm lovin doin this even though it can be frustratin with a capital F!

Didn't do the guide coat. next time. Primer/filler is the same as primer/surfacer?

Zman - I remember that green stuff as well. That is what I was looking for. The painter in the cabinet shop I worked in years ago used it on high-end paint.

So the consensus is gravity feed guns not hvlp? I see a lot of those around. lvlp have to look into those too. I copy on the 2 gun setup.

McG - I will check that out even though I think I'm done with cans. It isn't any cheaper that is for sure.

Dan - you need to work on your aroma therapy choices.

Ian - i assume you use the adhesion promoter over bare plastic not over already painted (plastic) surfaces?

I am a-m-a-z-e-d at all the different methods, procedures and tools. Kinda cool actually.

I'm reasonably happy with my results so far (pics to come). Zman you are correct on block sanding the plastic parts. I went off on it with an elec. d.a. and then tried to fill / blend my f.u. with bondo. Not good! :)

Onward and upward. Have a good day everyone!
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=118923#p118923:129psars said:
Pony Ruiz » Sat May 24, 2014 11:56 am[/url]":129psars]
Thanks! Yes any and all tips / info helps. I'm lovin doin this even though it can be frustratin with a capital F!

Didn't do the guide coat. next time. Primer/filler is the same as primer/surfacer?

Zman - I remember that green stuff as well. That is what I was looking for. The painter in the cabinet shop I worked in years ago used it on high-end paint.

So the consensus is gravity feed guns not hvlp? I see a lot of those around. lvlp have to look into those too. I copy on the 2 gun setup.

McG - I will check that out even though I think I'm done with cans. It isn't any cheaper that is for sure.

Dan - you need to work on your aroma therapy choices.

Ian - i assume you use the adhesion promoter over bare plastic not over already painted (plastic) surfaces?

I am a-m-a-z-e-d at all the different methods, procedures and tools. Kinda cool actually.

I'm reasonably happy with my results so far (pics to come). Zman you are correct on block sanding the plastic parts. I went off on it with an elec. d.a. and then tried to fill / blend my f.u. with bondo. Not good! :)

Onward and upward. Have a good day everyone!
The gravity feed IS HVLP, also available is a separate tank type HVLP but requires more cleanup and hoses that can get in the way. The thing to remember is preparation and speed, have your plan in place, all of your materials,a very clean painting area(wet the ground if outside), some use painters plastic and make a room with an open top to spray in so the gravity feed is simple,easier to clean and puts on a better coat IMHO. Also consider booth rentals, we used to rent a paint booth by the hour..Don't know if you have one in your area but maybe a shop will rent you theirs. Second thought maybe they don't even rent booths anymore..I wonder.
Good luck with your project.
 
Hi yes I do mean that, in my small experience I have doe the front bumper on my 1987 Toyota Supra MKlll and my Mercedes Benz ML270CDi Bumper which is also plastic. in both cases the ML was done two weeks ago, I used the plastic adhesion "promoter" (thanks for that couldn't remember the name) even where there was paint. The promoter also acts as etching and isolation coat. the base coat then went on after the primer. The primer after the intermediate layer or plastic promoter.

As for guns, I use a 3HP twin cylinder compressor, it has a 50Litre tank. I started by using HVLP or High Volume Low Pressure guns but my compressor had a bit of difficulty in throwing the paint. after switching to Low Volume Low Pressure my compressor was able to just keep up.

I also do all my spraying outside under a car port, so I always have to take that into account, more work in rubbing down to get rid of Nibs and so on. But always buy the best gun for the job, oh I don't have two guns I have three, 1 Primer high build, 2 base coat and a 3rd for top coat or clear. Just out of interest when you get a compressor check out the CFM or cubic feet per minute that is the important bit 10 Bars or 96 PSI is cool but doesn't tell you how MUCH air it can provide, mine is says it is 13CFM but is really only about 9CFM ideal is about a 3.5 4HP motor and a big tank 75 Ltrs and it must pump a continuous 13 + CFM then you have enough air to atomise the paint. Oh and use a ON gun air pressure gauge and spray at about 27-30 Psi at the tip.

There are hundreds of Vids on U tube. I have got bitten so bad with spraying I have 6 LVLP and HVLP. 4 Air Brushes and I am going ape **** trying to get this under my hat, after about 4 months I think I am getting there. But this is just to encourage you there is nothing like saying I did that, hope I have helped a bit. :hi:
 
Ian, I think I'm heading down the same slippery slope. I buy a gun then another, paint, more paint, a vid here and there - pretty soon I'm doing two colors, pin stripe, graphics and flames (not) etc, etc.

I was kinda looking for my next big thing - I think this is it.

I looked at my compressor. the label on it says 12.1 scfm@40 delivered. and 9.7 scfm@90 delivered. It is a 60 gal. So I am assuming you could have more scfm at a lower psi i.e. 13 scfm@30? I have no idea how to figure that.

Looking at guns. Would 1.8 or 1.5 tip be the ticket for primer and 1.2 for color/clear? https://www.eastwood.com/devilbiss-auto- ... ystem.html
I am going to paint my 80 bike next then on to the interstate after I get some practice. looking forward to it.

:party:
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=118974#p118974:6bw5mv45 said:
Pony Ruiz » Sun May 25, 2014 8:20 am[/url]":6bw5mv45]
Ian, I think I'm heading down the same slippery slope. I buy a gun then another, paint, more paint, a vid here and there - pretty soon I'm doing two colors, pin stripe, graphics and flames (not) etc, etc.

I was kinda looking for my next big thing - I think this is it.

I looked at my compressor. the label on it says 12.1 scfm@40 delivered. and 9.7 scfm@90 delivered. It is a 60 gal. So I am assuming you could have more scfm at a lower psi i.e. 13 scfm@30? I have no idea how to figure that.

Looking at guns. Would 1.8 or 1.5 tip be the ticket for primer and 1.2 for color/clear? https://www.eastwood.com/devilbiss-auto- ... ystem.html
I am going to paint my 80 bike next then on to the interstate after I get some practice. looking forward to it.

Hi for me as an amateur I would stay away from large diameter needle sets. 1.8 is good for almost any paint but you would have to be a pro to use it well. I have a 1.8 but have used it once to spray fibreglass gel coat, wast of time and money. I tend to use a 1.3 for base and top coats and a 1.4 for my hi build primers. Those DeVilbis guns are a great buy, Eastwood stuff is generally good quality, think a pro would rather spend $3 - 400 or more on a gun, but he/she makes their living with it. I think your compressor is fine for DIY needs. You can run a lot of air tools on that. I use mine for a DA sander 2", 3", 3" polisher, 6" DA sander and a tyre pump, but make sure you have water separators in line after the comp and before the sprayer. I use one larger one on the line and a small one at the connector on the gun I will post up a picture of my older el cheapo guns later today. I also a have a special gun with a gravity/side connection to the gun. This allows the gun to be used upside down IE vertical UP and the pot is also vertical. so the pot can be rotated. you can get one like this here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LPH50-102G-HV ... 1e7797dbe6 although this is a lot of money.
Ian
 
still looking for a gun or two. my local paint shop has two for $70. They say they aren't bad/good for the money. the young guy there painted his mini with them and liked them. I tend to go for better tool$ even if I am going to use occasionally but I might give these another look. I'll try to look for some with the 1.3 and 1.4 tips.
I am assuming a gun that requires 13 CFM at 23 PSI would be ok with my compressor? I'll have to chk that site again. I thought I saw a calculator....

I've got an old gravity feed gun and a touch up gun I might try again.

Ian - looked at those links you sent. My eyes glossed over when reading about the scfm stuff. And yes 400 is a lot to spend on a paint gun. At this point I don't see myself spending that kinda $ for one of those but you never know....
I am going to paint the body parts on my 1100 next. I don't like emblems per se not to mention mine are old and ugly. I am going to remove and fill the holes.

Last time I put fiberglass patches on the back using abs glue to adhere. then I bondoed the front. When you remove the emblem on the 1100 side covers there is this indentation. I'm wondering how I should fill that. Filling up with bondo doesn't seem like the way to go. too big a hole and maybe it will crack / shrink around the edges?

I saw a thread somewhere that covered this. I'll have to do some looking.

no pics yet of my project. I screwed up the clearcoat on my 78 panels. too much here and not enough there - if you know what i mean! that and the can was runnin on empty :head bang:
 
Rattle cans are ok for small jobs but I think they have too much air to start and run out real quick when you need the air so it sputters. I also bought myself recently a little tool called a nib file, it is very fine file about 1" square and just takes off the top of those horrible little nibs that stick up off the paint / clear. I think it is a great tool.
 

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