Jessco GL1000

[ekvh]

I was quoting Dan and I spoke too soon....again as I now see that was $250 each.

 

[Anonymous]

I was quoting Dan and I spoke too soon....again as I now see that was $250 each.

I had to go back and look myself.

This is my second set of cams. The first set were too aggressive; too much top-end and a terrible idle.

The cut I'm using now gives the engine a pretty unique sound, a great idle and a good, useable powerband around town and on the open road.

I've cut the crankshaft as well.

I've talked about all this on the Steve Saunders forum.
A couple of years ago (maybe three now, I'm not quite sure, it's late...) I asked for engine spec info; cam profiles, crank phasing, etc., ...and got zero response. I guess nobody knew any of it. I've come a long way with this engine since then. Not much of it is stock anymore.

 

[ekvh]

Cut the crank for a little more stroke? Specific info is scarce. Like to know grind info.

 

[joedrum]

hmmm that got me too eric ...seems cm85 is deep into his 78 1000....with internal mods ...kinda cool

 

[dan filipi]

I don't go to Saunders anymore.

I remember you talked of dual cam heads.
Tell us about that, pics? We love pics here.

Where are the longer ride vids where your running it through the gears?

 

[joedrum]

well as mods go unless i cut my own cams i cant do it to costly let alone the crankshaft thing big money ...it seems cm85 has done major changes to get the single carb package to work as he wanted it .....maybe the stock grind cams might be the biggest hurdle in single carb set up ....its a completely different motor now ..hmmmm.....i admire your number cunching talent on things ....its a great asset to have here on the forum :mrgreen:

 

[ekvh]

Pics are cool. Real data is cool too. I'm always looking for do-able mods, but this is a hobby and this late in the game, I'm not going to be going back to school. I like math, but don't want to learn all the ins and outs of cam grinds. I doubt I'll want to split a case on a gl either, but you never know. If the reward was a known certainty, it might be worth it.

 

[Anonymous]

This crankshaft is knifed on all the flats, drilled and "spooned". It lost a lot of weight, got skinny and thinks it's a model.
I had a previous crank re-timed 6 degrees (with the first set of cams) but drivability was sacraficed. An excellent racer, but a terrible engine to ride daily with. I still have that crankshaft.

I still have the dual-cam heads. I've two sets of them actually. I've never posted pics of them. Let me think about that.

The video here is the only video I've taken of the bike. I plan some more though. It's a time issue for me now and I have to plan most all of the time I have with my bike-stuff..

 

[Anonymous]

Dan was nice enough to link my banner in the sig line to what I call my "site", and what I have here about the bike is more than what I have there, but I have some set-up info there for single carb interests. Some jetting information for various carbs that I've used, a proper set-up of the Brosol H-30/31 for those that want to run it on a 1000, ...and some manuals particular to single carb stuff. I've a single-carb manual that I've been working on for what seems like forever but I'm close to finishing it. It'll be a .pdf like the rest of our manuals. It's based around my bike in general, and much of it in minute detail as pertaining to the induction. Much of the "Hot-Rod" stuff won't get minute detail. The idea is to apply it to a factory spec'd 'Wing. There's more to come over there but progress is slow. I've a 7-month old daughter whose Mommy is nearly half my age and my time is not what it use to be, ...so bare with me.

I like pics too. I like video even more. When I got this bike, Dan and many others were around. I've a "sticky'd" thread in the Reference Forum over on Steve Saunders site. It's about 3 years old now. It more-or-less shows where I started with this single-carb approach with my Goldwing. I knew something of single carbs on bikes, but not for a GL. I learned as I went. The thread is missing many of the pictures that were in it prior to the move to Motorcycle.com's management, and I rarely visit it much anyway. I'm old-school with my hot-rodding. Front-wheel-drive Civics were never a thought when I was pulling the right front up in my '73 R/S Z/28 with less than 300 cubes. I never gave a thought to Jap V-twins when I was putting a Big Twin bottom-end in my Ironhead Sportster. Consequently, I never thought I'd own a Goldwing. But I own one, and it's going to be the best I can make it be. I could care less about chrome unless it's going to provide less friction somewhere.

So, I like pics and video too. I started like everyone else. Information is truely the key to something towards an end. I simply want the correct information to be out there applicable to single carburetion with a GL1000. I was intentionally misled and mis-informed from the start when I was hunting-around for something other than the crumbling rack of Kehins that came with my 'Wing when I bought it off of eBay. Why?
I hope the video here, and the ones to come, show that a single carburetor on a GL1000 needs to be taken seriously.

Dan, it was Ray's old bike that got me thinking, "That's the way I need to go!" when I was thinking of the best approach to putting a carburetor on it. I remember ...vividly, thinking I had to get those runners straight to the cylinder heads, and that the VW plenum was the way to do it. I had not yet realized that the application of heat to the plenum section was not just key, but an absolute necessity. His plenum is heated, and heated for a reason. Tom Langdon convinced me that a heated plenum floor was essential. Once I heated the plenum floor, it solved all of my driveability problems that I was having early on:

So... pictures, eh? I don't have time to build bikes like this KZ750 anymore. ...a Poser-bike they loved looking at:

...or time to strip-down an old XS-11 and hunt Harley's in the night, ...at will:

What I do have time for is getting others the best they can have for their early 'Wing if they're going to run a single carburetor. If this thing below were available somewhere when I was looking for it, I would've bought it instead of having to make it. I can't be the only one who thought of the same thing, but here it is:

 

[joedrum]

it looks great ....

 

[ekvh]

I am still a four-carb believer, but I like the idea of cam changes. 32 degrees overlap is what Web Cam sells for 78-79 gl's for $371. Yours must be the same or nearly the same as theirs, CM. I'm guessing lightening the crank is part of what gives the quicker revs that are heard in the vid. Too bad that can't be done easier.

 

[Anonymous]

I am still a four-carb believer, but I like the idea of cam changes. 32 degrees overlap is what Web Cam sells for 78-79 gl's for $371. Yours must be the same or nearly the same as theirs, CM. I'm guessing lightening the crank is part of what gives the quicker revs that are heard in the vid. Too bad that can't be done easier.

The cams over at WebCam, that I'm aware of, have 66 degrees of overlap.

What I have is different than what they are offering.

 

[dan filipi]

My only experience going from 2 to 1 carb is on a vdub, a buddies actually.

With 2 carbs sure they had to be synced but the "preferred single" by all the VW guys was what he went with and there was very much a loss in performance, especially bolted onto a stock motor.
After he put in a built motor performance increased but still not as good as the dual carbs.
In those days we weren't as knowledgeable about such things and didn't have forums like these to get the information but I still think in his case the duals were better.
Of course after he added NOS all bets were off.

Heck, minor changes can and do make a huge difference.
I had a Dodge 400 van with a ittty bitty 2 barrel. Stuck a brand new 4 barrel Holley on it expecting more power.
Didn't go that way. Sure it sounded good and wide open throttle was great but all around performance dropped off in less mpg, idle smoothness.
Proper tuning is VERY important. The stock 2 bbl was set up for that engine and what it ran best with.

I'm just kinda rattling on here but my point is there are many other factors come into play to dial in anything properly be it a single or the stock 4 on these 4 bangers.

 

[dan filipi]

Now on the other hand if we could talk fuel injection for a sec, that there is what I'd want to do and a whole different beast.
I had a 75 International scout with a 345 V8 and a 2 bbl stock Holley.
I bolted on a 650 Holley throttle body with a in-cab controller. That thing was sweet, best of all was no float bowl to spill over off road.
After I did a valve job on it that engine absolutely loved that setup but there ya go, I could dial it in on the fly from a eye burning rich idle to a fuel starving stall at any rpm.
A set up like that is what I'd like to see put on a GL.

 

[ekvh]

Plugging in duration numbers at 0.050 and LSA of 107, it comes in right at 32 degrees.

 

[dan filipi]

It's looking like time to split these posts up into separate threads unless we're going to get back on track with this one, carbs I believe.

 

[Anonymous]

Proper tuning is VERY important. The stock 2 bbl was set up for that engine and what it ran best with.
I'm just kinda rattling on but my point is there are many other factors come into play to dial in anything properly be it a single or the stock 4 on these 4 bangers.

Dan, that hits the nail as squarely on the head as it can be hit.

Running the factory Kehin rack of 4, no matter what, will give different characteristics than a single, or even dual carburetors. All three approaches will have their trade-offs and their benefits. In running a single carburetor there will be differences in single versus dual throat carbs. Large venturi carburetors significantly differ than small venturi carbs wether single or dual throat. Most complaints I see are from a improperly set-up carburetor with these conversions. Manifold design plays a vital role too. There is much to work with and tune from a single carburetors throttle valve to the intake valve at the combustion chamber. Dual carburetor set-ups have little to do with the calculations required for a single carburetor set-up, but trying to get the single to offer what the dual, or the quad set-up can provide is challenging. Any one of the three set-ups can nearly equal, can equal, or can outperform the remaining two if designed to do so.


Example my manifold,
a) I can very nearly match a stock or dual set-up in off-idle throttle response. I cannot match or outperform it off-idle as witnessed in the video though. I've done the best I can do with regards to off-idle throttle response and a single carburetor and I'm very pleased with the results.
b) I match all other characteristics, and...
c) I outperform mid and upper range RPM throttle response times by optimizing the design of the manifold to do so.

So, while I cannot match the 4 Kehins in off-idle response, I can take advantage of the plenum and runners of the manifold and manipulate port velocities at various RPM to give me what the stock 4 Kehins cannot.

...trade-offs.

All three have their benefits, all three have their limitations.

This is just induction. Then there are the other factors.
It all has to work together.
Excellent point Dan.

 

[Anonymous]

This manifold of mine works with throttle bodies, MPFI or Nitrous. I've a manifold with welded bungs at the heads port end for fuel/nitrous nozzles. Not a one-size-fits-all though. I have to know what is being used.

I'm also working on a Weber plate set-up for nitrous. No Weber plates out there? I found one that was a one-off on eBay. That's hard for me to believe - no Weber plates out there anywhere. What am I missing on this?

 

[dan filipi]

Oh man I know what you mean.
It's getting hard to find this old school stuff and when ya do they want an arm and leg for it.
The throttle body injector I was talking about is getting almost $500 and that doesn't include the control module I had!

 

[Anonymous]

...for a comparison, here is a stock, low-mileage and clean '78 with the Cycle Innovations Invader set-up:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JykVTCDWyc4[/video]