mongruel getting a 86 1200 engine added to the bloodline

joedrum · Jun 18, 2010

a funny thing happen ....i changed the open exhast on the mongruel and put on some 1100 exhast system ihave and it just killed the mongruel....it wont even get out of its own way....

i guess this speaks of its adjustability in the timing department ......im not even going to mess with it ....im taking it out and putting in the 1200 motor i have this motor is very free and has lots of compression .......the mongruel 1000 motor will be my extreme build cause i want to add the 83 transmision in it to get the tallest of all gearing capable to run at 70mph at 3000 rpm in that range anyway.....a very lite custom bike with tall hiway gears for travel....and idont want mess with the timing as it is set up for strait pipes and runs super strong....

anyway im taking 1000 out and putting in the 1200 ....i just want to use the heads and carbs i got for the 1200 .....but need intake turn downs ,hydro clutch slave clylinder and clutch master lever and hose..... and to figure ou how to work the ignition system past the electronic igntion out of the motor with what the mongruel has is 3ohm coils with no balist resister and wires to plugs.....

so im starting today to get the mongruel 1000 out.....

dan filipi · Jun 18, 2010

Fun project, I wish I were there to help you.
I've thought about putting a 1200 in my 1100, one day when I come across one I can't pass up then I will.

Are you putting the '83 gears in the 1200? The 1200 has a taller 5th.

joedrum · Jun 18, 2010

no dan the 83 gears are going in the 1000 motor .....the 83 trans has the lowest 1st gear and the tallest 5th gear....the 1000 motor with its tallest secondary reduction to the trans is going to make this a very wide ratio trans set up....one full gear taller and then some than your 83....this will be the next project bike

i want to get the mongruel switch over as quick as possible ....

need a starter wonder if the 1100 starter will work ....

need clutch slave cylinder and master lever and hose....

need intake turn downs or imight have to put 1100 carbs on from 83 i have turn downs for it...

and need to figure out how to hook up ignition past the plug on the motor.... :help: :laptop: :read: :builder: :mrgreen:

Omega Man · Jun 18, 2010

So this is what you've been up to, it's damn strange not seeing your name in the "top posters last 24 hours" section. :razz:

~O~

joedrum · Jun 18, 2010

whats up ~O~ive been working on the mongruel today things could have went better....i broke off three of the carb turn downs bolts ...iguess they realy seized up over time since the last time the carbs were off.... :rant: :nea: :Awe:

im getting the feeling that this is not going easy to get the bolts out of the head any advice or sarcastic humor welcomed....

got the radiator off

got all the bags and and stuff off

exhast off

carbs off

cant find my 90 degree snap ring pliers

i hope tommarrow gose a little better....

still need to find parts.....

Omega Man · Jun 18, 2010

That's what ya git fer fixin sumthin that aint broke! :smilie_happy: No really though good luck with this project, I wish you were closer like Dan. I'd love to watch/help the build. :rocks:

~O~

joedrum · Jun 19, 2010

its starting to accure to me that my cheapish path to getting the project done is to use the 1000 heads on the 1200 motor making it a buffed out 1000 .....

going this route means i only have to get 1100 1200 head gaskit set....this the only way to get the ignition hook up to the 1000 wiring .....im open to other options but havnt gotten any feedback yet NWG OR CGW im going to make another post at the saunders site to try and get some insight and feedback ...
but the way things are going im pushing right along ......

im basicly doing this in my gravel drive which is more like a billy goat drive .....frame and all is all jacked up ....im fixing after this posting to take snap ring out of the drive shaft and pull the swingarm out .....im probably going to strip everything in the back but gas tank and battery box and wiring .... the front end will be left on to have everything all hooked up for testing when its ready to test......

any way id like to get the 1000 motor out today if things go right but im not going to push to hard as to do something im not ready for .......

dan filipi · Jun 19, 2010

Yeah, to run the 1200 ignition you'll need the ignition box but maybe could use the 1100 spark units with the 1200 pickups not sure.
I'm inclined to go with the 1000 heads because the points ignition allows easy timing changes, timing can me changed on the 1100 and 1200 but not as easily. With different heads and maybe different carbs I think the timing will need to be tweaked to get it dialed in best.
I have a set of 1000 heads I plan to have rebuilt and put on my 1100 for this very reason.

joedrum · Jun 19, 2010

yeah dan its getting hard to deny all the possitives to the 1000 heads . it was hard for me to beleave when i put the 1100 exhast on the mongruel that it just killed the performance....i had the timing all tweaked for the strait pipes and the mufflers made it like it didnt even want to run....let alone the bikes wired up for it
it dosnt realy look like i need any insight on this any more.

thuth is when i put this together with the 1000 heads and with 1100 83 carbs this is going to be a monster....im hoping 83 carbs can keep it smooth ....75 heads and carbs will make a monster with an attitude that just eats up other bikes if they dont to go......monster it is smooth or radical is the only question

joedrum · Jun 19, 2010

well after a posting by supperskypilot on the saunders forum ...imight be in deep crap on the use of 1000 heads....he says the water pluming is different and wont work on the 1200 block.....if this is true then i guess 1000 heads wont work on 1100s either....my only option would be if cams and ignition system will fit on 1100 head or drilled and taped to fit it dark and ill have to wait till morning on this.....

if im only left with hooking up 1200 ignition then this is the plan not much to consider anymore but i will have to make sure this is right ....i thought i had this all figure out from info on the forums but not all info is good info .....anyway im not to damaged on this i realy did want to try the 1200 out with the hydralic valves
since ive never had one .....so ignition box and coils and what ever i need to get fire in the hole is manditory now ...

so dan if you could post the info on the ignition system and parts from the 85 manual it would help me greatly i cant seem to get it done to even look at ....
i need to get this understanding on the system and wiring to get somthing to work ....im a little over my head on this right now...

dan filipi · Jun 19, 2010

I'm certain the 1000 heads will work on an 1100 (I had mine running once with the 1000 heads) and pretty sure the reverse should be true.
I'm sure enough the 1000 heads will work on a 1200 to try it.
Put this way, I set a 1100 head on Susies 1200 to check the fit and found they would bolt right up. I didn't check the crossover tubes but I think they'd line up.
I have a 1200 head I should compare with an 1100.

joedrum · Jun 19, 2010

i was just looking at the 1200 manual and the ignition box looks like it is exspensive .....dan didnt we just have a thread on replacing the ignition box with some kind of car upgrade hei thing or something.....

so dan you had the 1000 head on your 1100 and ran it that way??....that would be great news to me ....cause i know that the head gaskits clame to be the same for 1100-1200 motors...sky pilot said there would be problem with valve clearince and higher compression and the 1000 valves are smaller....iwould think this would be less of an interference motor but he seem to think it would be more...actualy i think the smaller valves is a plus on longivity and performance with the higher compression.....

dan filipi · Jun 20, 2010

No problem running the 1000 heads.

What year 1200 engine?
If '84 it has the rear pickups, I bet 1100 spark units would work.

joedrum · Jun 20, 2010

the 1200 is an 86 yr with the pic ups up front ....ive got a 1100 wiring harness but im like you i like the adjustability of timing and spring loaded timing advance of the 1000 and with the dyna ignitions and coils all the short coming are eliminated
making it just the ignition i want to use.....

its amazing some of the opinions you can get on things ...i saw no differense in the 1000 and 1100 head....i havnt been able to look at the 1200 head yet as it is still on the motor....but i cant see a obvious problem with it so far

i guess the whole deal is to make a 1000 like 1200 with 1100 carbs is wear im leaning right now. it dose seem that if i use the 1000 heads the 1200 carb rack might not be an option .....im going to look some more after posting .....

so thanks dan for your testing on the 1000 head you used this has somewhat put my mind at ease but im going to look hard at this issue to figure out what skypilot was talking about hes no fool by any means so i dont take his words litely at all
hes doing the same project right now .........

dan filipi · Jun 20, 2010

joedrum":6zl7ohcr said:
its amazing some of the opinions you can get on things

Yeah I know what you mean, I try to keep opinions separate and post only what I have direct experience with what I know work because it get's too confusing.

joedrum · Jun 20, 2010

today i got the 1000 motor out .....at this point im going to do alot of things......

im going to go over the frame and repaint it ....

im going to take the swing arm out an modify it to use the maxium width tire i can

i guess im going to paint the motor to maybe no better chance to screw it up than no

yes it seems the pluming issue is in the 1200 head ....it has to be used with the 1200 carbs

the only un knowns i got is pistn and valve clearence this will be answered when 1200 heads come off
that will be a big moment

the only other thing is getting the 1000 heads and 1100 carbs ready ..im going to try and get a friend to help me go though the carbs

you guys got any suggestions on paint to use even rattle can for frame and motor

joedrum · Jun 22, 2010

im fixing to go out and start sanding the frame and some welding that needs to be done....

im back and forth on doing more work on the swing arm to handle a bigger tire theres no better time than now to do it ....

mcgovern61 · Jun 22, 2010

Joe, when I repainted my '83 engine, I made sure it was throughly clean first by using GUNK SCII mixed with diesel fuel. The distillates not only remove oil and grease, but prep the remaining surface for paint. You scrub with this stuff and wash it down with warm fresh water when you are finished. DO NOT WASH IT DOWN UNTIL YOU ARE SURE IT IS CLEAN! Once the gunk gets water on it, it immediately starts to emulsify and it will not clean anymore. Just think of it as using a giant parts washer!

Scraped loose paint, sanded and the usual prep. After all the new seals and stuff were finished, I cleaned it one more time with a hot water and ammonia mix to remove the last of my finger grease. Then I used rattle can engine enamal from Pep Boys, (Duplicolor DE 1615 Aluminum). As the paint aws still pretty tacky, I sprayed engine enamal clear coat, (Duplicolor DE 1636 Clear). I think it turned out pretty good and it still looks like it came from the shop!

'83 repainted

mcgovern61
Mar 7, 2010

joedrum · Jun 22, 2010

i think it dose to to gerry .....it looks good and iwill probably do just like you stated.....do you think the same color and method would work on the frame....

im figuring out that the frame painting is going to take awhile and holding everything up ...

to keep thing going along im going to mounth 1200 motor in the 83 frame i have so i can test it...this way i can have both jobs going on at the same time...

my daughter home for afew days mabe ican get her to posts some pics.....if the motor checks out good i will paint it to....its just a matter of colors

okay back at it.... :builder: :mrgreen:

mcgovern61 · Jun 22, 2010

We did use the same process for painting the frame except for the paint not being engine enamal. The frame painted up in one day and still looks good!

mongruel getting a 86 1200 engine added to the bloodline

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