92 Toyota Previa help

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Andyb

Andyb

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Berea, KY
OK. Our old Previa (265K miles) won't start. It had been running rough when I went through a puddle for a while so I knew that the distributor cap needed to be replaced (Previa engines are under the chassis). It was started to get hard to start a few weeks ago which led me to think that I needed to replaced the distributor, rotor button, plug wires and plugs. When trying to start it, it would, for lack of a better word, clunk hard like the motor was shaking and then start. But, before I could get to it, it quit starting all together. So I changed out the rotor button, distributor cap, plug wires and plugs. Still no start. I double and triple checked the plug wires to make sure they are all going to the correct plug. I can pull the plugs and smell gas on them so I know it is getting fuel. I know I am getting spark. Still, no joy.

Yesterday, when I tried once again to start it, the air hose blew off airbox with a small amount of force. ( I also added some water remover to the gas.)

So, this leaves me with two ideas about why the engine is not starting (although I am sure there are more I don't know about). I am wondering if either the coil is delivering too weak of a spark to actually fire the cylinder or if timing chain has jumped thus throwing off the timing? The age of the motor makes either seem plausible. Is it possible for a coil to work but not work enough? My only experience with them so far has been that they either work fine or not at all. If it is the timing, then I am going to junk it because at 265K, I have no interest in fixing something that involved. I would just buy a new coil, but they are kind of expensive and after spending over $75 already, I am not anxious to spend another $70 to find out that it is the timing chain.

Anybody have any ideas on this?

Thanks,
Andy
 
You could be right on the timing but it's also likely that your distributer is worn out. Grab the rotor button and see if it moves easily side to side. Bring the timing marks up to alignment and see if the rotor button is facing #1 plug. Do that twice as it is possible to be 180 degrees off. If both ways don't line up to #1. It's jumped time.
 
I don't know if that's a zero clearance engine but I'd do a compression test first before throwing any more cash at it since if your getting spark and gas/air mixture the only things left are ignition and timing, compression and valve timing.
A compression test should provide more clues or at least rule out lack of compression causing a no start.
 
Ahh, the good ol' "rolling jelly bean"!
You say it started running rough since you drove through the puddle?
My thoughts (from far away):
"Could be" the problem started with the wet ignition system. Wet ditributor cap=allowing the spark to go where ever started the flooding process. The misfires, from skewed spark delivery, was allowing excessive gasoline to wash out the rings. The problem continued untill the crankcase became flooded (contaminated oil). I'm thinking in terms of a compression problem due to the rings not sealing.
The oil serves 4 purposes:
1. Lubricate
2. Seal
3. Clean
4. Cool
My first suggestion would be to pull the dipstick. Does the level look higher than it normally looks? Check to see if it is dilluted. Most people can smell the gas on the dipstick, but I don't seem to be able to smell gas all that good anymore. The way I check for gas dilluted oil is to put a drop of oil from the dipstick onto my hand. Good oil will remain as a drop. Dilluted oil will start spreding into all the little lizard skin wrinkles in my hand.
I have solved many no start problems with a simple oil/filter change. If you find the oil dilluted and change the oil and filter, when you go to restart the motor, hold the peddle all the way to the floor at first while cranking. This puts the computer into the "clear flood mode". That means it will stop supplying gas by disableing the fuel injectors. You'll need good battery power till you get it started. May even want to try this with the plugs removed first. You might need to dry them off anyways. Once it starts and runs kinda crappy, rev it up untill it will idle smooth on it's own.

That's what I got for the info you posted. Check the oil and see what you think.
 
scdmarx":y5o4by2x said:
Ahh, the good ol' "rolling jelly bean"!
You say it started running rough since you drove through the puddle?
My thoughts (from far away):
"Could be" the problem started with the wet ignition system. Wet ditributor cap=allowing the spark to go where ever started the flooding process. The misfires, from skewed spark delivery, was allowing excessive gasoline to wash out the rings. The problem continued untill the crankcase became flooded (contaminated oil). I'm thinking in terms of a compression problem due to the rings not sealing.
The oil serves 4 purposes:
1. Lubricate
2. Seal
3. Clean
4. Cool
My first suggestion would be to pull the dipstick. Does the level look higher than it normally looks? Check to see if it is dilluted. Most people can smell the gas on the dipstick, but I don't seem to be able to smell gas all that good anymore. The way I check for gas dilluted oil is to put a drop of oil from the dipstick onto my hand. Good oil will remain as a drop. Dilluted oil will start spreding into all the little lizard skin wrinkles in my hand.
I have solved many no start problems with a simple oil/filter change. If you find the oil dilluted and change the oil and filter, when you go to restart the motor, hold the peddle all the way to the floor at first while cranking. This puts the computer into the "clear flood mode". That means it will stop supplying gas by disableing the fuel injectors. You'll need good battery power till you get it started. May even want to try this with the plugs removed first. You might need to dry them off anyways. Once it starts and runs kinda crappy, rev it up untill it will idle smooth on it's own.

That's what I got for the info you posted. Check the oil and see what you think.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't know if it is going to fix it, but you are on to something here. The oil is way up on the dipstick. Since this engine takes 6 quarts anyway, I am very curious about how much is actually in there.

Well, off to the auto parts store. I will let you know what happens next.
 
Usually it will take a lot of cranking to get it started. Just remember about holding the pedal to the floor. No point in burning up the starter. Give it a break every couple of minutes to cool off. Whatever the problem turns out to be, you gotta have some good oil up in there to seal around the rings before you can consider any further diagnosis. Also, that thinned out oil will want to start leaking from other places. Just make sure it don't soak the plug wire boots.
I believe Toyota has made the best car on the road for many years. As much as I hate working on the older Previa, I gotta tell ya, the motor ain't the weak link in this vehicle. The miles you have on it are nothing.

I really hope it turns out to be this simple.
 
scdmarx":19tdzvae said:
Usually it will take a lot of cranking to get it started. Just remember about holding the pedal to the floor. No point in burning up the starter. Give it a break every couple of minutes to cool off. Whatever the problem turns out to be, you gotta have some good oil up in there to seal around the rings before you can consider any further diagnosis. Also, that thinned out oil will want to start leaking from other places. Just make sure it don't soak the plug wire boots.
I believe Toyota has made the best car on the road for many years. As much as I hate working on the older Previa, I gotta tell ya, the motor ain't the weak link in this vehicle. The miles you have on it are nothing.

I really hope it turns out to be this simple.
Click to expand...


I have the battery on the charger right now. If it won't hold up to the cranking, I can always jump it off my other car.

I agree with you on working on this thing. Changing the plugs is a half a day of work with having to remove the passenger seat. I like just about everything else about the van though.
 
I have cranked it quite a bit, but I will give it some more tomorrow. It has not started and while I have not given up, I am less optimistic.

What would cause pressure to build up in the intake tract. Just downstream of the mass air flow sensor/airbox, the hose keeps blowing off as though pressure is building up. The only thing I can imagine causing this would be if it jumped time and is now pushing air out of the intake valves instead of drawing like it should. Hmmm...
 
it not sounding good i thought rons post were very good hes pretty good at this stuff .....a stuck valve maybe ...jumped time like you said ....well 265 thats some good use it provided andy .....good luck :help:
 
Sounds like back fire through the intake popping the hose off. Timing? Crossed plug wires? As mentioned before, find TDC for #1 cylinder, then look to see if the rotor is pointing to #1 plug wire. Bump the starter while you have the cap off to varify the direction the rotor turns, then varify your firing order.
If the plugs are still wet or gas fouled, it would help to clean and dry them off. I have had the motor backfire quite a bit while trying to clear the flooding. I'd go as far as to say that it's expected in this situation. With the plugs removed, crank the motor while holding the gas pedal to floor to dry out the cyliders. To clean the new plugs if they are wet or sooty looking, you can lay them on a piece of wood and heat the tips with a propane torch untill they start to turn red. Just the tip. There have been times when I didn't have a propane torch available and brought the plugs in the house and layed the tips over a burner on the stove.
Drying things out will help speed up the cranking process.
Now that I'm thinking about it, I have had some cars that were really hard to start like this. Just be patient and come back latter and try it again. It's very important to hold the pedal to the floor. STAND ON IT! Every time you let up on the pedal while cranking it you're sending more gas to the plugs.

I feel pretty confident about this. If the plugs are dry and the firing order is right, I think it's gonna strt eventually. "Course that's easy for me to say when you're doing all the work. :hihihi:
 
If ya still have a no start condition and haven't reached any conclusions. Do this one thing. Remove the 02 sensor if accessible or drop exhaust pipe at exhaust manifold and then attempt starting the car. If it now starts, you have a very restricted exhaust (plugged CAT?). Its rare that a no start would be caused by this as other symptoms occur first (loss of power under a load). It will cause popping through the intake when restricted enough and I've come across this a couple of times during my wrenching career. Other things mentioned by others for sure can cause your problem but if after checking what has been suggested doesn't help, try this.
 
dan filipi":1qdu54xf said:
:popcorn:
Click to expand...
Dan, I hope you have a lot of popcorn. I am heading out to DC for work tomorrow and I won't be back til Thursday night. I will be riding the wing and today I have to get the bike in order and I can't focus on the van.
 
scdmarx":3866i8wx said:
Sounds like back fire through the intake popping the hose off. Timing? Crossed plug wires? As mentioned before, find TDC for #1 cylinder, then look to see if the rotor is pointing to #1 plug wire. Bump the starter while you have the cap off to varify the direction the rotor turns, then varify your firing order.
If the plugs are still wet or gas fouled, it would help to clean and dry them off. I have had the motor backfire quite a bit while trying to clear the flooding. I'd go as far as to say that it's expected in this situation. With the plugs removed, crank the motor while holding the gas pedal to floor to dry out the cyliders. To clean the new plugs if they are wet or sooty looking, you can lay them on a piece of wood and heat the tips with a propane torch untill they start to turn red. Just the tip. There have been times when I didn't have a propane torch available and brought the plugs in the house and layed the tips over a burner on the stove.
Drying things out will help speed up the cranking process.
Now that I'm thinking about it, I have had some cars that were really hard to start like this. Just be patient and come back latter and try it again. It's very important to hold the pedal to the floor. STAND ON IT! Every time you let up on the pedal while cranking it you're sending more gas to the plugs.

I feel pretty confident about this. If the plugs are dry and the firing order is right, I think it's gonna strt eventually. "Course that's easy for me to say when you're doing all the work. :hihihi:
Click to expand...

Well, this is the most optimistic view so I will keep trying it. I will let you know.
 
aslatk":1vswkwrw said:
If ya still have a no start condition and haven't reached any conclusions. Do this one thing. Remove the 02 sensor if accessible or drop exhaust pipe at exhaust manifold and then attempt starting the car. If it now starts, you have a very restricted exhaust (plugged CAT?). Its rare that a no start would be caused by this as other symptoms occur first (loss of power under a load). It will cause popping through the intake when restricted enough and I've come across this a couple of times during my wrenching career. Other things mentioned by others for sure can cause your problem but if after checking what has been suggested doesn't help, try this.
Click to expand...

I can see where this would happen, but I replaced the cat about 40K miles ago. I don't think it would be plugged at this point. Of course, it could be elsewhere in the exhaust I guess.
 
chasrogers":2qc9ms40 said:
Andyb":2qc9ms40 said:
I have cranked it quite a bit, but I will give it some more tomorrow. It has not started and while I have not given up, I am less optimistic.

What would cause pressure to build up in the intake tract. Just downstream of the mass air flow sensor/airbox, the hose keeps blowing off as though pressure is building up. The only thing I can imagine causing this would be if it jumped time and is now pushing air out of the intake valves instead of drawing like it should. Hmmm...
Click to expand...

BINGO timing chain has jumped thus throwing off the timing on the nail head I bet do the compression test and that will let you know if the valves are out of time be very careful not to totaly mess the engine up by having a valve hit the piston.
Click to expand...

Given the age of the engine, and the vehicle I am not terribly concerned if the valves crash into the pistons. If this was a daily, or even regular, driver I would be concerned. But, we only use this vehicle occasionally. If the engine is shot, it will likely follow the same process that all of our other old vehicles have followed. Park them, use them for storage for a while, and then have them hauled to the junk yard.
 
I know pretty much nothing that is Toyota specific. However I'm very familiar with the Chrysler 318s. They typically need timing chain and gears at 100k miles and the third timing chain they need a distributer. I'd pull the #1 plug and bring it to TDC verifying with a screwdriver through the plug hole. If the timing marks don't match. It likely has skipped time. If the rest of the vehicle is in decent shape I'd put in new timing chain and gears. Your car. Your call.
 
Ah the 318, I've had a few of them and a 400.
They like to eat valves, did 4 318's and 2 400's at around 100k but once done I got over 300k out of the 400 and the 318's got well over 200k.
 

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