C5 Installation on GL1100

[MrUnlucky]

I finally got my hands on the C5 kit, and am looking over the instructions before beginning and I have two questions.
Wait...make that one question...just found an answer in the third pdf (the "controls cylinders 1 and 2" in the instructions really means "1 and 3" on the Wing). Looks like "wasted spark" is still in effect and each of the two coils will control the same cylinders as the stock coils.

So on to Question #2:
There's this white wire called a "timing curve select" wire which would connect to a vacuum switch but it also says that manual swtiching can be used. If I'm reading this right, connecting this to ground via a toggle swtich would give a better timing curve for flat land with minimal load (just me, no toolboxes or steep hills) and turning that switch off would give better timing for steep hills and lugging shit to work. As I live in a rather hilly area and mostly drive to and from work with a lot of gear I'd be leaving this switch off most of the time anyway, I'm just curious. I kinda like the idea of having a "drag racing switch" even though I have no intention of racing.

 

[slabghost]

Sounds to me like you have the two curve version. If so I'd install it with that wire grounded first and see how it does in the hills. If it stumbles you can unground the wire.

 

[dan filipi]

Let's see some pics of your new toy :beg:

 

[slabghost]

Yes post up pics! Might want to call Paul to verify whether to ground on not.

 

[MrUnlucky]

The fun has not yet begun, but here is the complete kit ready to go, along with '79 GL1000 cams, gaskets, etc:

I want to be 108% sure about the entire process before I go taking apart my only transportation (the head in the pic is a spare), I'll do the build tomorrow (what better way to spend valentines day than doing heart surgery on my favorite girl?) after re-reading all the directions and torque specifications about twenty more times.

 

[slabghost]

Since that goes on the head the old ignition can remain. Just disconnect it. Put the coils where you like so minimal downtime. Cams will go right in the 1100 heads so if gaskets are good no head change required.

 

[dan filipi]

I've got a few thousand miles on mine with the coils just zip tied in place out of the way.
Cheesy to some (maybe most) but quick and simple for me.

 

[MrUnlucky]

dan filipi » 14 minutes ago[/url]":22ukzvev]
I've got a few thousand miles on mine with the coils just zip tied in place out of the way.
Cheesy to some (maybe most) but quick and simple for me.

I'm planning something similar. I currently have three sets of the mounting brackets for ignition coils, so I'm going to find an alternate location to mount either the C5 coils or the factory coils with the factory plug wires rolled up out of the way and the wiring harness connections to the factory coils and pulse generator unplugged. That way if anything ever goes wrong with the C5 I can just swap spark plug wires, reconnect a few harness plugs, and start right back up. Considering the smaller size of the C5 coils and the fact that they apparently don't require a ballast resistor, it would probably be easier to relocate them separately to the extra space I have around the air intake from the single-carb conversion.

Since that goes on the head the old ignition can remain. Just disconnect it. Put the coils where you like so minimal downtime. Cams will go right in the 1100 heads so if gaskets are good no head change required.

That's the plan. I don't think I'd actually even need to pull the head itself to install the new cams, but I want to check the gaskets after all the popping and banging that happened as each set of ignition coils died out. I've had the left side off before, and that gasket was in laughably bad shape but the valves, rockers, cams, etc were okay. I haven't had the right side apart yet, and haven't had the left side apart since the coils started cooking off so I figured it couldn't hurt to have replacements for everything on hand when I take it apart, just in case. Also to have the opportunity to fiddle with putting a cam into a head, finding the right way to turn it so there won't be tension on any springs when I tighten the bolts, etc ahead of time. That way when I take apart the one I need to get me to work monday I'll already know what to do.

 

[slabghost]

You need to change both cams at the same time. If you must remove the heads to look I suggest you set up another set of heads with the cams installed with new seals and valves checked as well as checking the surfaces are absolutely flat for the gaskets. That way you just swap heads and you are back in business with minimum downtime.

 

[brianinpa]

A manual switch is the way to go as far as I'm concered, but I am sorta partial as have a 4 position switch for mine. The added power is noticeable for a few of the settings, but I haven't pulled a loaded trailer with the bike yet.

slabghost » Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:00 pm[/url]":1r5avgz4]
Sounds to me like you have the two curve version. If so I'd install it with that wire grounded first and see how it does in the hills. If it stumbles you can unground the wire.

I missed that this option was available.

 

[tuna boy]

Hate to make a nerdy comment but in your pile of stuff I see Mobile 1 oil. Stating the obvious here but the synthetic oil is very bad for the wet clutch in your wing. Just sayin

 

[Dusterdude]

I cant tell in the pic,is it motorcycle oil?

 

[slabghost]

Mobile 1 motorcycle oil is fine with wet clutches. I have it in my Kawasaki. Not sure though how well it does in these oldwing motors.

 

[slabghost]

brianinpa » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:04 pm[/url]":x3h1asix]
A manual switch is the way to go as far as I'm concered, but I am sorta partial as have a 4 position switch for mine. The added power is noticeable for a few of the settings, but I haven't pulled a loaded trailer with the bike yet.

slabghost » Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:00 pm[/url]":x3h1asix]
Sounds to me like you have the two curve version. If so I'd install it with that wire grounded first and see how it does in the hills. If it stumbles you can unground the wire.

I missed that this option was available.

I'm pretty sure the C5M was only 2 curves but I think it is no longer in production. :headscratch:

 

[MrUnlucky]

This really set the mood for the rest of the day.
Apparently I have angered the motorcycle gods.

The C5 doesn't fit (apparently I should have ordered the GL1000 kit, that GL1000 camshaft is way too long for the ignition to fit in the cover that came with it), maybe I can add a spacer between the head and the ignition?

Front seal on the left side cam started leaking oil onto the belts
field-fabricated a replacement gasket, but the oil washed away my silver sharpie marks on the sprocket and belts, forcing me to do the timing the scary way...and by flashlight
and now my battery is inexplicably dead which doesn't really bother me because I'm kinda scared to start her anyway. I'll feel better after triple-checking the timing in the daylight tomorrow.

 

[slabghost]

Double check your kit. I think there is a spacer provided to go between the head and the case. If not contact Paul.

 

[joedrum]

MrUnlucky » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:46 pm[/url]":31enbbuw]
This really set the mood for the rest of the day.
Apparently I have angered the motorcycle gods.View attachment 1
The C5 doesn't fit (apparently I should have ordered the GL1000 kit, that GL1000 camshaft is way too long for the ignition to fit in the cover that came with it), maybe I can add a spacer between the head and the ignition?

Front seal on the left side cam started leaking oil onto the belts
field-fabricated a replacement gasket, but the oil washed away my silver sharpie marks on the sprocket and belts, forcing me to do the timing the scary way...and by flashlight
and now my battery is inexplicably dead which doesn't really bother me because I'm kinda scared to start her anyway. I'll feel better after triple-checking the timing in the daylight tomorrow.

hmmm you mean the stem is so long the cover wont fit down to head ..... that is stranged it is time to call paul ...that just not right ...something wrong ...the spacer deal ...just the disk up with the unit in the right spot ....hmmmm

 

[ekvh]

Wait for others to confirm this but I believe you can adapt the 1000 sub plate to that head and it might push the c5 out enough to use. The 1000 has two pieces for the back of the head. I'm pretty sure Joe ran one of his early bikes with ignition on the 1100 head with early cams. If I remember right he had to shave a little to make it work. I am also unsure if the c5 for 1100 uses the same bolt circle as the 1000.

Didn't notice Joe's post when I typed this.

 

[joedrum]

ok the disk is suppose to fit over the stem not on the end of it ...and before the disk a stem goes on to put it in proper position ...you will have to get this or make it im sure the 1100 one is not the same ...as stated call c5 ..and get paul involved here

 

[MrUnlucky]

Okay, I am going crazy.
Yesterday when I did the camshafts I put marks on the timing belts and pulleys with a silver sharpie to be 100% sure they went back in on exactly the same tooth they were on when I took them loose. I did one side, then the other, and had marks across the two belts on the crank pulley. I'm 100% sure they were returned to the exact positions they were in before I started.
THEN
When I started up (still using the old ignition sys) I saw oil leaking out of the timing belt housing. The gasket that holds the seal in place at the front of the left head had torn and the seal slipped out of position so I had to pull it all back apart to insert a replacement gasket.

I tried re-applying my silver marks but the oil on everything made them too easy to wipe off, so I had to do the timing on the left side via TDC only. After reassembling the left side, I went to bed.

Today I opened up my timing covers to make sure I hadn't f*cked anything up trying to align everything by flashlight last night and my *right* side pulley is upside-down. The one I did by flashlight is aligned correctly with the
T
1
F
mark on the flywheel, and the other one is 180 out.

To be perfectly honest, timing scares the shit out of me. More than one tooth out and you destroy everything, so I'm a a loss here.
Is it possible for the engine to run with one cam 180 out?
I even turned the engine over slowly before starting it last night so if there was valve/piston contact it wouldn't put a hole in the piston, and I didn't hear a death-rattle while it was running and leaking oil out the left side.
WHAT THE HELL?!

also i've fabricated a spacer to get the C5 mounted (the reason I checked the timing pulleys again is that I was about to set the timing on the C5) but I'll post that later, this is more important.