- Joined
- Dec 3, 2009
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- 258
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- Van Nuys Ca.
- My Bike Models
- 1983 Interstate
2018 KLR 650
2018 BMW S1000 RR
- My Bike Logs forum link
- https://classicgoldwings.com/forums/dan-filipi.122/
Paul, I sent you a private message.
C5 Performance says hello to our fellow Goldwing gearheads!
- Thread starter C5Performance
- Start date
Help Support Classic Goldwings:
OP
OP
I would like to add a few comments now that i am home. I spend all day driving in my van so i usually answer questions using my smart phone (have you ever tried doing that...man those keys are small). I appreciate the excitement from the Goldwing community and will try to keep up with your questions. I have been getting well over 30 emails/calls a day from all kinds of bike and car owners. I would like to clarify a few things from my initial post.
:help:
First clarification - reliability. Although we started offering kits last year, the company who designs and manufactures the optical reader and ignition coils have been in business for about 20 years. They have sold thousands of ignitions for Harley Davidson motorcycles, race cars, and various British products a.k.a. Triumph/BSA/Norton. We are told they have not had more than one or two coil failures and about a dozen ignition failures with sales exceeding 10,000 units. We were not around back then but i trust the information. To me, especially working with Dyna ignitions at the dealer level, that seems very reliable. I have met people who bought their ignitions over 10 years ago and never had problems. I don't think many engines shake worse than a mid 1970's Sportster!
The optical disc is stainless steel and has no moving parts. There are no magnets to fail or fall off. The optical reader is similar to what is used in hospitals and has proven to be reliable. I have a friend in the industry who used to be a distributor for PowerArc in the early days and he said they didn't have issues with them. I answered this one as honestly as i can. The ignition has a 6 month warranty but in certain situations repairs could be made for a small fee.
:head bang:
I am going to stop and warn everyone who reads this...I have personally had two ignitions fail. One of my friends wired his up so the power wire to the ignition was shorting out on the cooling fin of his engine. The other was a customer who connected a hot lead to his tachometer output wire. I cannot stress enough the importance of understanding the instructions, and having quality connections (no cheap connectors and soldering instead of using wire nuts left over from your house remodel).
Second clarification...ignition curves for different motorcycles. You can take a stock curve (that roughly mimics the Honda curve with points and weights) and use it for virtually every engine in the world. Case in point: We use the CB750 SOHC curve for our Chevrolet ignition. One curve will run almost every 4 stroke engine in the world. Most engines start around 16-18 degrees of advance and run up to 36-40 degrees of total advance. We have been running bikes on the dyno but have yet to see a big increase in power by re-writing the curve. Usually we make it run worse.
Before i began working with ignitions I was under the impression that every engine had a magical curve just for that engine. I was wrong. An engine running at a certain rpm requires a specific ignition advance to get the spark "to church on time". Unless you are turbo'd or supercharged, the curves are amazingly similar. Two strokes are totally different but i wont explain that here.
We used the CB750 curve for the Goldwing 1000. We would use the same curve for the 1100 or 1200. The stock points and weights on many Japanese engines are used on all types of cycles. The science of the curve is not magical at all. Finding a system that triggers the coil accurately and reliably is tough.
Our ignition is programmed with a "stock" curve as the most aggressive setting. The Goldwing kit uses a C2 ignition (used to run 2 coils) and there are a total of four ignition curves already programmed into your module at no extra charge. By grounding or ungrounding two wires, you can change curves while riding.
If you want to make a custom curve for your particular bike, you can tell us what curve you want, or you may purchase a dealer kit that allows you to program your own curve and save it. Don't spend too much time thinking about this one. The 4 curves we give you really do the job for almost everyone!
Each curve has slightly less total ignition advance. This would allow you to switch curves for things such as:
1)high load - side car, heavy passenger, trailer towing, or extreme mountain/hill riding
2)poor fuel - you get a tank of the bad stuff and it starts knocking
3)high force - extreme high speed or turbo/supercharge/NOS applications
You can switch between curves by using two toggle switches, wiring a 2 pole/4 position rotary switch, or use a VOES (vacuum switch) which Harley Davidson uses.
You could wire up your NOS switch to change curves during spray
You could wire a gear selector switch to change curves (say, to get better mileage in top gear)
You could wire it to a VOES switch to change curves during a momentary high load situation such as passing in top gear or running up a steep hill, where the bike can retard timing, let the engine recover without detonation, then switch back to standard curve when the load is reduced....all without you worrying about flipping switches.
Third clarification...Vacuum switches. Why use them, and would it be an advantage/disadvantage? As stated above, a vacuum switch allows the ignition to react to load without the rider thinking about it. If you feel that you'd rather be in total control of your timing (using points you certainly never were in control) then simply choose not to install a VOES switch. When we build a system for the 1100 and 1200, we will build it just like the 1000 kit. You can choose how to switch curves based on your own preference. We have not used a vacuum switch on the 1000 yet but there simply hasnt been time for that yet. I hope to use one on my GL1000 once the side car is installed, and will be a great test vehicle.
Fourth clarification...the GL1100/GL1200 kit. When designing the GL1000 kit, we inspected a GL1100 and as many of you know, there is not much room back where the stock ignition is located. My friend and mentor GLWrench has worked exclusively with Goldwings for decades. With his knowledge and experience we do not believe the average customer could pull the stock ignition out and install ANY ignition with the bike completely assembled. I encourage someone to tell us we are wrong (then call us so we can fly you into Wisconsin and show us how).
Our ignition is about 1.25" in height, but you must install the encoder disc and get it timed while the ignition is bolted to the engine. We had a difficult time photographing the location, so i'm not sure how you'd get your hand or tools in there to get the job done. Again, i have not done this, but i am told that pulling the swingarm or dropping the engine would make the most sense, or use the GL1000 cam and leave your stock ignition in place.
Here is something to consider, and we encourage your input on this!!! If we have cams manufactured for the 1100/1200 engine, and they are $300 a set, is that better or worse than the labor cost to mount an ignition in the stock location. This one question will determine what approach we take. I want our ignition on ALL Goldwings, but we need to make sure the path we choose is the best way. If the kits costs too much nobody will buy it. Can anyone help us with this decision?
Thats all for now. Anyone still reading this gets an A+ for paying attention, or you are an engineer and you crave this stuff...sick people
:help:
First clarification - reliability. Although we started offering kits last year, the company who designs and manufactures the optical reader and ignition coils have been in business for about 20 years. They have sold thousands of ignitions for Harley Davidson motorcycles, race cars, and various British products a.k.a. Triumph/BSA/Norton. We are told they have not had more than one or two coil failures and about a dozen ignition failures with sales exceeding 10,000 units. We were not around back then but i trust the information. To me, especially working with Dyna ignitions at the dealer level, that seems very reliable. I have met people who bought their ignitions over 10 years ago and never had problems. I don't think many engines shake worse than a mid 1970's Sportster!
The optical disc is stainless steel and has no moving parts. There are no magnets to fail or fall off. The optical reader is similar to what is used in hospitals and has proven to be reliable. I have a friend in the industry who used to be a distributor for PowerArc in the early days and he said they didn't have issues with them. I answered this one as honestly as i can. The ignition has a 6 month warranty but in certain situations repairs could be made for a small fee.
:head bang:
I am going to stop and warn everyone who reads this...I have personally had two ignitions fail. One of my friends wired his up so the power wire to the ignition was shorting out on the cooling fin of his engine. The other was a customer who connected a hot lead to his tachometer output wire. I cannot stress enough the importance of understanding the instructions, and having quality connections (no cheap connectors and soldering instead of using wire nuts left over from your house remodel).
Second clarification...ignition curves for different motorcycles. You can take a stock curve (that roughly mimics the Honda curve with points and weights) and use it for virtually every engine in the world. Case in point: We use the CB750 SOHC curve for our Chevrolet ignition. One curve will run almost every 4 stroke engine in the world. Most engines start around 16-18 degrees of advance and run up to 36-40 degrees of total advance. We have been running bikes on the dyno but have yet to see a big increase in power by re-writing the curve. Usually we make it run worse.
Before i began working with ignitions I was under the impression that every engine had a magical curve just for that engine. I was wrong. An engine running at a certain rpm requires a specific ignition advance to get the spark "to church on time". Unless you are turbo'd or supercharged, the curves are amazingly similar. Two strokes are totally different but i wont explain that here.
We used the CB750 curve for the Goldwing 1000. We would use the same curve for the 1100 or 1200. The stock points and weights on many Japanese engines are used on all types of cycles. The science of the curve is not magical at all. Finding a system that triggers the coil accurately and reliably is tough.
Our ignition is programmed with a "stock" curve as the most aggressive setting. The Goldwing kit uses a C2 ignition (used to run 2 coils) and there are a total of four ignition curves already programmed into your module at no extra charge. By grounding or ungrounding two wires, you can change curves while riding.
If you want to make a custom curve for your particular bike, you can tell us what curve you want, or you may purchase a dealer kit that allows you to program your own curve and save it. Don't spend too much time thinking about this one. The 4 curves we give you really do the job for almost everyone!
Each curve has slightly less total ignition advance. This would allow you to switch curves for things such as:
1)high load - side car, heavy passenger, trailer towing, or extreme mountain/hill riding
2)poor fuel - you get a tank of the bad stuff and it starts knocking
3)high force - extreme high speed or turbo/supercharge/NOS applications
You can switch between curves by using two toggle switches, wiring a 2 pole/4 position rotary switch, or use a VOES (vacuum switch) which Harley Davidson uses.
You could wire up your NOS switch to change curves during spray
You could wire a gear selector switch to change curves (say, to get better mileage in top gear)
You could wire it to a VOES switch to change curves during a momentary high load situation such as passing in top gear or running up a steep hill, where the bike can retard timing, let the engine recover without detonation, then switch back to standard curve when the load is reduced....all without you worrying about flipping switches.
Third clarification...Vacuum switches. Why use them, and would it be an advantage/disadvantage? As stated above, a vacuum switch allows the ignition to react to load without the rider thinking about it. If you feel that you'd rather be in total control of your timing (using points you certainly never were in control) then simply choose not to install a VOES switch. When we build a system for the 1100 and 1200, we will build it just like the 1000 kit. You can choose how to switch curves based on your own preference. We have not used a vacuum switch on the 1000 yet but there simply hasnt been time for that yet. I hope to use one on my GL1000 once the side car is installed, and will be a great test vehicle.
Fourth clarification...the GL1100/GL1200 kit. When designing the GL1000 kit, we inspected a GL1100 and as many of you know, there is not much room back where the stock ignition is located. My friend and mentor GLWrench has worked exclusively with Goldwings for decades. With his knowledge and experience we do not believe the average customer could pull the stock ignition out and install ANY ignition with the bike completely assembled. I encourage someone to tell us we are wrong (then call us so we can fly you into Wisconsin and show us how).
Our ignition is about 1.25" in height, but you must install the encoder disc and get it timed while the ignition is bolted to the engine. We had a difficult time photographing the location, so i'm not sure how you'd get your hand or tools in there to get the job done. Again, i have not done this, but i am told that pulling the swingarm or dropping the engine would make the most sense, or use the GL1000 cam and leave your stock ignition in place.
Here is something to consider, and we encourage your input on this!!! If we have cams manufactured for the 1100/1200 engine, and they are $300 a set, is that better or worse than the labor cost to mount an ignition in the stock location. This one question will determine what approach we take. I want our ignition on ALL Goldwings, but we need to make sure the path we choose is the best way. If the kits costs too much nobody will buy it. Can anyone help us with this decision?
Thats all for now. Anyone still reading this gets an A+ for paying attention, or you are an engineer and you crave this stuff...sick people
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2013
- Messages
- 9,855
- Reaction score
- 34
- Location
- Brisbane Australia
- My Bike Models
- 1981 GL1100 “Rats Nest”
1998 GL1500c Val
1987 CBR1000f “The Pig”
1991 CBR1000f Red
The 1000 cams would be worth the effort/cost if it means better performance than with the stock cams :good:
slabghost
Well-known member
1000 cams fit and do better than stock in 1100 motors so custom cams are not needed. They do NOT work in the 1200 without modification. Valves do contact the pistons.
I believe the average wrench could access the ignition units on 1100's without pulling the motor, but pulling rear wheel, inner fender, and maybe the swing arm. Everything is exposed. It would be easier if it was up in the air.
slabghost
Well-known member
I did mine with the swing arm in place.
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2009
- Messages
- 22,432
- Reaction score
- 258
- Location
- Van Nuys Ca.
- My Bike Models
- 1983 Interstate
2018 KLR 650
2018 BMW S1000 RR
- My Bike Logs forum link
- https://classicgoldwings.com/forums/dan-filipi.122/
Although 1100 does run better with 1000 cams, I would much rather have an 1100 ignition in its stock place so an 1100 and 1200 kit has my vote.
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2009
- Messages
- 22,432
- Reaction score
- 258
- Location
- Van Nuys Ca.
- My Bike Models
- 1983 Interstate
2018 KLR 650
2018 BMW S1000 RR
- My Bike Logs forum link
- https://classicgoldwings.com/forums/dan-filipi.122/
And your clarifications are much appreciated.
They answered all my questions for now
They answered all my questions for now
OP
OP
All the great feedback makes us want to pursue the 1100 kit right away. Is anyone currently working on one that would allow us to install an ignition? If we dont need any adapter plates the ignition will be less expensive to manufacture.
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=83956#p83956:1emyvjje said:
:shock: That offer sir could start a riot. :smilie_happy:
~O~
slabghost
Well-known member
I just got mine together. I'm sure there is someone with a bad vac advance that will jump on this offer.
That`s a good idea, When the 1100 hit the market they couldn't build them fast enough, Many sold and many are still out there running. Further more they were available in full dress or standard which made them much more popular, maybe more then any other model.[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=83956#p83956:9po5mk1g said:
And welcome to the forum.
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2009
- Messages
- 22,432
- Reaction score
- 258
- Location
- Van Nuys Ca.
- My Bike Models
- 1983 Interstate
2018 KLR 650
2018 BMW S1000 RR
- My Bike Logs forum link
- https://classicgoldwings.com/forums/dan-filipi.122/
I could certainly make mine available, it has a bad vacuum advance.[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=83956#p83956:1ktptqa1 said:
Let me know what you need from me.
The engine is sitting on the floor.
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2009
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- Location
- Duncanville, Texas
- My Bike Models
- 1981 GL1100 Innerstate("The Turd")SOLD!!, 1996 GL1500 Innerstate
Thread moved from New Member Welcome forum. :mrgreen:
OP
OP
Dan, I have an ignition coming for an 1100 next week. I will let you know when it arrives and perhaps we can get some help from you. I have an 1100 advancer unit and housing but not an entire motorcycle or engine.
