Clutch Conversion.

[mcgovern61]

We've had serveral discussion on the cam change. Here is one of them:

viewtopic.php?p=25832#p25832

 

[David Mantle]

I have followed the link given and agree that the timing might be an issue.
The GL1000 runs at 32 degrees BTDC @4000 rpm - the GL1100 runs at 38.5 degrees BTDC . Therefore so long as the timing is adjusted to suit then I see no reason why I can not get this sorted with few problems. :deadhorse:

 

[joedrum]

its very close to stock timing ....the rear ignition on american bikes is fixed with a headless bolt that can be taken out and switched with hex head bolt ...but it hard to do with motor in bike the whole rear of the bike has to come off ....it involves tirning the vacume advance canister ...as it is threaded and moves the ignition plate ...it has to be checked out good for moving and clean before doing ....realy if its in the bike id just leave it the way it is ...and do the cam switch ...its that close...

the cam switch is not much more than changinging belts ...ive been very successful at smoothing ridges or edge on cams and rockers for them to match well ...be clean and use oil everywhere it needs it ....there is a better cam switch thread than the one posted here in this thread somwhere :laptop: :builder: :mrgreen:

 

[David Mantle]

But doesn`t the 1000 setup NOT have a vacuum advance? Why not just use the setup for the 1000 and forget the vacuum advance idea - after all this is how most cars and bikes worked very successfully until the concept of vacuum advance. I know and appreciate the vacuum advance is an improvement in pick up but not the " be all and end all ". :read:
If all else fails then I reckon I could fit the vacuum canister onto the stock 1000 points unit and get the best of both worlds . Thanks for the input - it is appreciated . :thanks:

 

[dan filipi]

I have run without vacuum advance on my 1100 and feel very little difference if any in performance.
That's not to say I wouldn't notice more if it was working 100%, I know the diaphragm is leaking a bit.

littlebeaver did a vacuum advance mod replacing the diaphragm I think from an auto. If I remember it made quite a difference.
This is one more thing I've added to my ever growing list.

I have run the 1000 cam with the points, both using the points for ignition and the rear pickups for ignition.
Performance is very close, I mean splitting hairs really.

 

[David Mantle]

I have looked at the littlebeaver repair for the auto-advance and must admit to being in awe at the man`s knowledge and ability. For sure he is one person I shall "pinch and adapt" knowledge from. :thanks: :good: :lol: :hihihi:

 

[joedrum]

im not saying dont do the 1000 ignition ...its just easier to use the 1100 ignition and standard set up .....put in the cams and go ....if you put in the early 75-77 cams the timing is fine ...timing for the 78-79 cams is where things get funky in my experience

 

[David Mantle]

Thanks for the comment but the whole idea of this thread was to find alternative hydraulic clutch methods that use standard Honda parts and not relying solely on those from the 1984 1200.

Using later rear engine covers , without the ignition poking out of the rear ( cause Honda placed the unit on the later engines at the front ) is why the use of the 1000 ignition sticking out of the back of the left cylinder head is the only viable option. This way I think that the later rear engine cover and clutch of a 1985 onwards 1200 could be used PROVIDING that the cams and ignition off 1000 engines are used. These systems did not use the vacuum advance units but I reckon that they could be made to work just fine. As dan filipi - post #25 - has found out , a leaking unit ( which might as well not be there because it doesn`t work properly anyway ) shows very little detriment to performance . Since the ignition timing , BTDC , differs with both the 1100 and 1000 engines ( see post #22) then no matter which set up is used I believe a little trial and error would be called for if one is to achieve optimum performance anyway. :hi:

 

[dan filipi]

Nice to see ya'll using the post numbers to reference pertinent information. That is what its there for

 

[joedrum]

some of us are smarter than other dan good point ...now after 3000 posts i been enlihgten again ....yes dave i see what your saying ....the only other thing is the stator housing is bigger also and might have to have 1200 stator to work in there ...im not sure im just throwing that out there ...ive measured it once and i think it was bigger ...but yes just a little fudging on the timing is all you have to do on the 1000 ignition ...personaly i didnt go that way but i did put 1000 points cover and stuff on and if something happens to the 1100 ignition on my bike ill switch to 1000 i like that option a lot....

 

[David Mantle]

Even if the stator housing is bigger - does the cover itself BOLT on without any modification . As far as I know the gasket bolt pattern is the same ( I may be wrong - please enlighten me if anyone knows better ) . To the best of my knowledge I think that ALL the 1200 and 1100 engines share the same alternator stator ( G8 ) albeit a heavy duty output version is available - 350 watt

 

[joedrum]

ill go mesure them again at on time i wanted to mount the 1100 rear cove on 1200 and did some measuring ....they bolt up fine but the 1100 cover wasnt fitting over 1200 stator ...buts been a yr ago ill measure again and post back i have them both here to look at

 

[joedrum]

ok dave ive measured ...1 the stator is bigger 2 the 84 1200 rear cover will fit 1100..3 the 86 1200 i have will not fit 1100 the bolt patterin is different at the motor and rear caover on 85 and newer 1200 and will not bolt to 1100 ....im sure this is not what you wanted to hear but thats what it is ....the bolt patterin is off on everything in everything about the 85 and later 1200 as it pertains to rear cover ......

 

[dan filipi]

Topic moved to Customizing. Should be easier to find in the future that way.

 

[David Mantle]

ok dave ive measured ...1 the stator is bigger 2 the 84 1200 rear cover will fit 1100..3 the 86 1200 i have will not fit 1100 the bolt patterin is different at the motor and rear caover on 85 and newer 1200 and will not bolt to 1100 ....im sure this is not what you wanted to hear but thats what it is ....the bolt patterin is off on everything in everything about the 85 and later 1200 as it pertains to rear cover ......

This may not be what I wanted to hear but I am glad that you have been able to clarify things for me . Many thanks in taking the time and trouble to measure things up. I really appreciate what you have done for me , it saves me buying a later rear end case and possibly throwing it away because it would have been no good

I am still going ahead with the hydraulic clutch conversion and am intending to fit the earlier cams off the 1975 1000. I have the rear case from an 1984 GL1200 plus the clutch components and am just waiting for a few more parts to arrive from the USA ( points backplate and outer cover ) I fancy the , hopeful , power boost from the cams and easier maintenance from the head mounted ignition. :hi:

 

[joedrum]

yes ...i think this is good plan dave it sure has worked out for me ....i think the early cams do better in the 1100 motor than they do in 1000 motors ....its rather neat to have two ignition setups also ....in case of some kind of failure to one ...that option you dont find much on street bikes ....im glad we sorted this info to the forum ....i think you will be will pleased with the results of this mod good wrenching to ya dave take pics and post them of the proccess .... :builder: :mrgreen:

 

[David Mantle]

:deadhorse: Such a shame that there is a big pond between our two countries. It sure would be fun wrenching some time - take care good buddy

 

[David Mantle]

I have found a link to another wing forum - Naked Gold Wings - where someone has actually done a complete clutch conversion. Here they show step by step photographs in clear detail of this conversion.
https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22244

 

[David Mantle]

It answered a lot of MY questions also. :hi:

 

[griz]

I changed handle bars for the same effect. Put 87 bars on my 83 changed the pull on my wrist and problem solved for 1hr work and $80.00.