How to catch rust from fuel tank?

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jim lentine

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Jan 11, 2010
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Location
Edwardsburg, MI. 49112
I have two 83 1100s and both of the tanks have some rust in them. I put all kinds of chemicals in one of the tanks and thought I got the majority of the rust out of it, started bike up right after carb rebuild and it ran great. I was running the fuel from a seperate clean container. Right after I reconnected the regular tank I started having problems again. The slow speed jets seem to clog very easily. I've thought of puting some type of sediment bowl on it to catch the rust then a friend of mine suggested fastening a magnet to the fuel filter. I don't know where to get a sediment bowl small enough to fit in that area. Does anybody have any idea???
Jim Lentine
 
I am doing the initial service on a 83 Aspencade new to me.
Part of this service is to change the fuel filter. When I removed the old filter I could see it has been doing its job.

DSCN7329.JPG


After looking at the dark area I decided to cut it open.

Old Filter Cut Open.jpg


I have some amount of rust in my tank also and you can see the filter is doing its job of stopping the particles. You shouldn't need a magnet to trap rust.

Does your goldwing have a filter in place now?

Filter from R side.jpg


This is the view of where the filter mounts under the gas tank behind the carbs as viewed from the right side.
 
One thing I found when cleaning my tank, was that it was either the main feed or the reserve feed line that was completely plugged. I don't know how any fuel was getting through it. They are open now after a rotor-rooter treatment with an 1/8" steel cable in a cordless drill. When I took the bowls off my carbs during overhaul, I couldn't believe that what was in the bowls could get by the fuel filter and the strainer in each carb, unless the junk just precipitated out of the gas from sitting around. The bottoms of them looked like dried mud. Probably got a tablespoons worth out of the 4 carbs. Nasty looking stuff.
Randy
 
:eek: Oh wow thats alot of rust in that filter, I really need to replace the filter on my bike, i havnt done it yet and i bet it has rust too since my gas tank has a good amount of surface rust
 
Have you thought about this??

Battery and Washing Soda/Electrolysis


Remove rust and amaze your friends with Science! Electrolysis is a technique for returning surface rust to iron. The process actually alters the tank wall on the molecular level removing the oxygen that has oxidized (rusted) the tank. This method has advantages over old standbys like vinegar, Coke, muriatic acid, naval jelly, wire brushing, sand blasting, etc. because those methods all remove material to get rid of rust. These other methods also remove un-rusted material. The electrolytic method removes only the oxygen from the oxidized metal by returning surface rust to metallic iron, rust scale is loosened and can be easily removed. Un-rusted metal is not affected in any way.

https://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Removing_ ... a_gas_tank
What do you need to make this work? Not much, really:

Your rusted gas tank.
A battery charger or other source of 12V DC power.
Wires or cables to connect the electrodes together, lLower guage better, less heat. make sure it insulated.
Sacrificial electrodes - iron re-bar works great, stainless steel is very bad (and the result is illegal and dangerous). Go to your hardware store get some non coated steel
Arm & Hammer LAUNDRY Soda, also known as washing soda.
Some chains or steel wire to suspend the part in the solution - copper wire is bad and messy.
Water
The basics are pretty simple.

Look in your tank. Get familiar with the inside of your tank you are going to need to fit the Sacrificial anodes in there and have them not touch the edge, because it will cause you to ground out and not work.
Mix 1 Tablespoon of Baking Soda with every gallon of water to create an Electrolyte solution. (Don't go overboard with the baking soda people. It won't help.)
Cut your sacrificial anodes to lengths that will fit in the tank. I drilled holes at the top to attach a wire. Now use electrical tape to tape the wired end and the other end thickly so there is no possible way you can ground out on the edge. You can use more then one at a time.
Wire all of the electrodes together so they are, electrically speaking, one big electrode. Make sure all connections are on clean metal and sufficiently tight to work.
Suspend your part in the solution using the wire/chains so it is not touching the bottom and is not touching any electrodes.
Attach the battery charger NEGATIVE lead to the part and the POSITIVE lead to the electrodes. Do not get this backwards! If you do, you'll use metal from your part to de-rust your electrodes instead of the other way around -the positive electrodes are sacrificial and will erode over time. That's how the water becomes iron-rich. THE POLARITY IS CRUCIAL!! The iron or stainless electrode is connected to the positive (red) terminal. The object being cleaned, to the negative(black). Submerge the object, making sure you have good contact, which can be difficult with heavily rusted objects. Get it backwards and your object will be relentlessly eaten away! Make connections on a part of your electrode that protrudes out of the solution, or your clamps will erode rapidly.
Double check everything to be sure the right things are touching, the wrong things are not touching, and the cables are hooked up correctly.
Turn on the power - plug in the charger and turn it on.
Within seconds you should see a large volume of tiny bubbles in the solution - these bubbles are oxygen and hydrogen (very flammable!). The rust and gunk will bubble up to the top and form a gunky layer there. More gunk will form on the electrodes - after some amount of use, they will need to be cleaned and/or replaced - the electrodes give up metal over time. That's why re-bar is such a nice choice - it's cheap and easy to get in pre-cut lengths.

The process is self-halting - when there is no more rust to remove, the reaction stops. This is handy because you don't have to monitor it, and because you can do large parts where they are not totally submersed at one time (aka, by rotating them and doing half at a time) without worrying about "lines" in the final part.

Once you are done, the part should immediately be final cleaned and painted - the part is very susceptible to surface rust after being removed from the solution. There will be a fine layer of black on the part that can be easily removed, and once it is removed, the part can be primed/painted as needed.

Safety Precautions
You're playing with serious stuff here, so stay safe. It's not rocket science, but if you're new to this, you might not know all of this - so read up before you do any of this.

This process produces highly flammable and explosive hydrogen gas (remember the Hindenburg?), so do it outside, or in some other well ventilated area. Hydrogen is lighter than air (like natural gas), so it will collect near the ceiling - not sink to the floor like some other flammable vapors will (like propane and gasoline). If you have open flames near this (Hint: gas appliances like water heaters and furnaces have pilot lights!) you will most likely severely injure or kill yourself (and others near you) and become a contender for the Darwin Awards in the process.
Assuming you used re-bar and steel wire/chain like you were told to, the waste water resulting from this is iron-rich - it's perfectly safe to pour it out onto the grass and your lawn will love it. Beware of ornamental shrubs that don't like iron-rich soil though, unless you like making your wife mad at you.
Make sure the battery charger (or whatever source of power you use) stays dry. All of the usual cautions about any electrical device in a wet environment apply here.
The solution is electrically "live" - it is a conductor in this system. Turn off the power before making adjustments or sticking your hands into the solution. You can get a mild shock if you stick your hands into the water with the power on.
The solution is fairly alkaline and will irritate your skin and eyes. Use gloves and eye protection. Immediately wash off any part of your body the solution comes into contact with with plenty of fresh water.
Don't use stainless steel for the electrodes. The results are toxic and illegal to dump out.
Don't use copper for the electrodes and anything else in the water - the results are messy.
If you are unsure of any of this or unsure about your safety - STOP! Get help before you do something stupid. Use common sense, be smart about what you're doing, and stay safe so you can finish your restoration project and enjoy it.
 
I can honestly say that the electrolysis idea would definitely work to remove any rust from my tank....I can say that because I know if I tried it, I would wind up blowing the tank to smithereens!!! :Awe:

:smilie_happy: But that's just ME.... :rtfm:
 
It's probably rust. That super fine silt will get past many filters and plug up the tiny jets in our carbs.

Have to consider each cylinder is carburated for a bit over 250 CC's so the jets have to be small.
The finickiness of these carbs is why so many are going to a single carb setup.
 
jim lentine":w1tp8pb9 said:
I'd like to try the electroysis method but i wonder how many amps does it take to do this?
Jim Lentine

A Board I was on used the 10 amp battery charger and zinc bolts.. and left it for 3 days.. checking the bolts for dissolving.. and replaced as needed... these were done on V-4 tanks,, sab-mag group.
 
dan filipi":1pzwavzz said:
It's probably rust. That super fine silt will get past many filters and plug up the tiny jets in our carbs.

Have to consider each cylinder is carburated for a bit over 250 CC's so the jets have to be small.
The finickiness of these carbs is why so many are going to a single carb setup.
Any idea why these bikes (or any motorcycle for that matter) has 4 carbs?
 
My guess would be that it is easier and less costly to come up with a four hole plenium rather than a single hole.. and the carbs can be made smaller and more efficient as separate units and you can tune them to each cylinder...
 
mcgovern61":1xy2bqbt said:
dan filipi":1xy2bqbt said:
It's probably rust. That super fine silt will get past many filters and plug up the tiny jets in our carbs.

Have to consider each cylinder is carburated for a bit over 250 CC's so the jets have to be small.
The finickiness of these carbs is why so many are going to a single carb setup.
Any idea why these bikes (or any motorcycle for that matter) has 4 carbs?

Better accelration and performance if tuned correctly. Naybe more efficient combustion meaning more miles per gallon.
2 cents worth
 
jim lentine":2m6wfb9h said:
I wonder if I could clean the tank with electrolysis while it's still in the bike?
No, Don't try it mate, unless you hate your bike. I would try this with the tank removed under my house but I hate the house. :evil:

I had a tank that used to stress crack on a race bike. It took hours of flushing to get all the fuel out for welding. We welded it while full of water (the tank, we were full of beer) and you could still smell the fuel coming out of the water. Like me mate the boilermaker says, the safest way (for you) to fix a fuel tank is to get someone else to it. :salute:

Same boilermaker says take the tank to a few fabrication shops and get a few prices for having one made from stainless. He's gunna make mine for beer and materials when the time comes, he don't know that yet but thats how we allways do stuff for each other :lol:
 
Yes pull the tank off. That way you can remove the sending unit and this will give you a large hole to suspend the sacrificial anode in. Keep the tank out of the house with plenty of fresh air. I used Arm n Hammer Washing soda for clothes. 1/2 cup per 5 gallons of water and the battery charger was running two amps. The tank was so bad I poured a full cup of rust out of it and you couldn't even see the pickups. After a week it was brand new.
 
Yes, it was well worth the struggle of pulling the tank. I used coat hangers for the anodes and changed them eveyday and also removed the petcock and plugged the holes. Didn't want to take the chance of eating up the petcock since it's not steel. The process only breaks loose the rust and will not bother the base metal. When it was complete just pour the soap mixture out but don't do it on the wifes plants or on the driveway. It is nothing more that rusty soapy water. Here in PA they are very strict when it comes to chem hazards. Rinse the tank agin with fresh water then reassemble it. Pour acetone about 1 quart and swirl it around to absorbe the water, pour that out, you can save it. Then dry the tank. I just filled mine back up with gas afterwards. The tank lining kits that are on the market I have heard breakdown and will come loose because of the additives they are putting the gas here in the US. Didn't want to chance it. My theory is the tank was built and installed in 1983 with nothing so why tempt fate. Here's a site that pretty much explains the process: This was one of the reasons for not using the acids plus the fact that the tanks is so old. Even the gas cap went through the treatment and is good as new. Here's a link that explains the process: https://users.eastlink.ca/~pspencer/nsae ... ml#special. Another method I heard about was filling the tank with vineger and letting it set for a few days. This could be an easier solution and coud be done with the tank on the bike, just have to figure out how to get it out afterwards maybe a siphon through the reserve pickup tube then nuetralize it with baking soda and water then acetone to dry.
 
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