I just can't catch a break...(or "I am my own worst enemy")

[dan filipi]

Joel said compression at 150 all 4 so I think what he's already checked tells us the engine is fine.
Maybe to rule out pickup coil damage can you get a close enough look at them maybe using a mirror? Look closely at the backing plate, reluctor, and coils.
Next I'm thinkin float levels need to be checked and like Joe said, the sliders.

 

[AApple]

id be ready to beat thing to the ground ....

Trust me...the thought has come to mind...I have an 8 pounder sitting right there...within reach...I was looking hard at it last nite. :rant:

So a weak spark is normal...great. Actually, what Joe said about the sliders does make sense, from what little I know about these carbs. It does kinda fit the symptoms. Runs fine at idle/low rpm, but not at higher rpm, running lean enough to glow the pipes at higher rpm. I don't think I can get the tops off of any of them in the bike, but I'll look a little closer next time I feel like farting with it. I'm really not wanting to do anything else....I feel like I have lost this battle, but at the same time, I wanna know what the hell happened(other than my ignorance with the rotor bolt). I guess I need to just back away from it for a while, and regroup. Hard to do when the weather is sooooooo perfect for ridin. I guess I'll take a look at some carb rebuild threads, and see what I might be looking at, so I'll have a better idea of what's right and what ain't, when I recharge enough to feel like messing with it. :Awe:
I have a video scope I can snake up in there to look at the pulse generator stuff. I can still move both the advance plate, and the advance mechanism of the rotor, so I know both of those are free to move, but I don't know if there might be some sort of other damage, like a wire pinched or something....the video scope will give me a good look up in there.
Thanks guys.... :clapping:

 

[joedrum]

well if its carbs blown up joel dont trash the bike we will somhow come up with a good set of carbs somehow ....this is just to much for one person to bear realy ...and we are many here... :mrgreen:

im dam scared to say this ...it dont take long to just take the carbs off so they can be evalulated and tested ...like flow to the bowls and also flow that stops when blows are full ...and of corse the best and only way to check slides ...with carbs off you can also check that the slides are lifting ...with some vacume applied to it ...yes take a break .. but i bet it wont last joel you be right back in it as soon as you catch breath waiting for bell of the next round your far from done im sure :heat: :lazy: :builder: :laptop: :builder: :laptop: :builder: :laptop: :mrgreen:

 

[dan filipi]

Know that we're with ya Joel picking our brains for all possibilities as well as the other 2 threads with a similar problem.
Hang in there bro, you'll find it.

 

[AApple]

When I find it, Imma gunna KILL th' son of a b :sensored: h!!!
:smilie_happy: :mrgreen: :smilie_happy:

im dam scared to say this ...

:smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: :thanks:

 

[scdmarx]

Not claiming to have any answers for you, or that I even know my butt from a flat rock, but....
For what it's worth: I've been bitten by spark that kinda looks to be about right.

For checking ignition coil output.
A weak coil may spark just fine, but it will crap out under load.
With one of these tools you can adjust the gap to make the coil "work harder" to see how much KV it's actually capable to put out.
Also good to check for steady or intermittent spark.



Also, before you tear too much apart, you might want to put a timing light on it real quick and see what happens.

 

[AApple]

I've got a spark tester....it doesn't make much difference...the spark is still "weak", but it will jump a pretty large gap. Dint look to see how large the last gap was, but it had to be around .080" or so....wider than the recommended plug gap, fer sher...
Now that I think about it, I also have a KV testor for plugs...you clamp it around the wires, and see what it is taking to fire the plugs....dint think of that. Thanks Ron!

I do also have a dial-back timing light... :good:

 

[scdmarx]

If it'll jump a gap that large consistently, then the coil is doing it's job.

So if it's not a spark or timing issue, then I'd go along with the fuel delivery theory. Just check all you can before tearing stuff apart to save yourself some work, maybe. As mentioned, check fuel pressure and volume.
Also mentioned somewhere in this thread, throttle cables, etc. Maybe something didn't stay where you put it last time?

 

[AApple]

Thanx Ron! I really feel like this is a fuel problem...like I said...it feels like a car with a stopped up catalytic converter.
I just now had a thought(ruh roh!)...what if the MAJOR backfiring it was doing out the exhaust blew a chunk of something into the muffler, and has them stopped up? hhmmmmmm.....but then again, it WAS runnin perfectly when it quit, and there hasn't been any major backfiring since then...just pops and farts.

Ida know...I'm gunna look into the fuel side next. Once I get this turd running right again, I'm gunna give Mama one of the 8 pound sledges I have, and tell her to pop me upside the head if I EVER try turn a wrench on this thing again! :builder:
:smilie_happy:

 

[mcgovern61]

I just now had a thought(ruh roh!)...what if the MAJOR backfiring it was doing out the exhaust blew a chunk of something into the muffler, and has them stopped up? hhmmmmmm.....but then again, it WAS runnin perfectly when it quit, and there hasn't been any major backfiring since then...just pops and farts.

Is it possible the back firing popped a section of the pipe? I know there was a GL1000 that had a header pipe wall failure that did the same thing! He dropped his headers and you could see a section of the inner wall had collapsed into the bend.

 

[backlander]

Suggestion: 1. block off vacuum to vacuum advance at #3 carb.
2. test coils, minimum of 6mm or 1/4 in arc between electrodes

 

[AApple]

Interesting...what will removing the vacuum advance do? Other than not giving it any advance, that is. I know the vac AND mechanical advances are working properly.
1/4" arc sounds kinda large, but...I don't know what kinda firepower these systems have to begin with....
:thanks:

 

[backlander]

if the vacuum advance is damaged or you have a leak it will pull air into carbs just like an intake leak or such, causing all kinds of problems. The large gap arc is from haynes manuel on 1200 but I figure there pretty close to same and indicates good strong coils. Matter of fact, they say replace coils if they can't jump that gap.

 

[slabghost]

Interesting...what will removing the vacuum advance do? Other than not giving it any advance, that is. I know the vac AND mechanical advances are working properly.
1/4" arc sounds kinda large, but...I don't know what kinda firepower these systems have to begin with....
:thanks:

As long as the vacuum line is plugged there shouldn't be a noticeable difference except maybe a little harder to start. Just be sure the vacuum line is plugged.

 

[AApple]

:Awe:
Still no progress. Took the carb tops off, checked the slides, all nice and free to move in the covers, slide up/down in the carbs easily. Still not runnin right...like a fuel problem, but don't know where, or WHY. Imma gunna take the cover back off the pulse generator, and make sure everything is where it should be there one last time. I'll run my video scope up there for a good look. Getting to the point of giving up, but I hate being beaten by a machine... :rant:

 

[scdmarx]

Did you ever check the fuel pump?

 

[AApple]

:headscratch: Fuel Pump? It has a fuel pump? :shock:

:smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: Just kiddin...I did check the lines/hoses from the tank to the pump, all clear. I put a pressure gauge on it the other night, but then discovered the needle on the gauge was messed up, not zeroed... it did move, but I still don't have an accurate reading for pressure. I have a new gauge ordered, but won't get it till Friday.
I haven't check for flow/volume today. I'm letting it cool down a bit(and me too) before I do anything else.
I still get the small pops out of the air intake if I try to give it quick throttle....but it will rev to redline if I do it slowly.
Once it cools a little, I'll get back out and see if I have decent volume thru the pump.
I tried checking the KV on the pug wires, but they're so dam close together, it's hard to tell what's what. I need to find some way to separate them more for that to be useful.

 

[scdmarx]

The popping could be caused by the lean condition.

 

[Fitz2at]

The popping is a classic sign of the air cut off/diaphragms being bad. Also, when was the last time the carbs were givin a good ol' fashined cleaning. Your slow speed jets could also be plugged.

Fitz

 

[AApple]

OTay ya'll...get ready to :smilie_happy: oh2: ...

The 'Wing is runnin like a champ now. I had Mama follow me in the car, and I took a short 28 mile run, to verify it was finished. I'm satisfied that it is, and totally embarrassed to announce the cause of all of my frustrations for the past week or so.
Anyway, here's da poop...
Last week, when I had to have the bike towed back because it died on me, I had found that the bolt that holds the rotor onto the shaft requires a washer on it, also. I had installed the bolt, but no washer. Doh! Once I realized that, I installed the a washer on the bolt, and re-installed it. It ran, but not very well. Next morning, when I attempted to ride it to work, I had to turn around and come back home. At that point, I decided to back away, and get a grip before I really DID set it on fire in the yard.
We all spent most of the week trying to determine what the heck was going on with it...it was running fine until the ride on the flatbed, so we were all kinda leaning toward a fuel problem, which made perfect sense to me. I spent most of the morning taking the tops off of the carbs, and checking the sliders. All were nice, clean, and moving freely both inside of the top cover, and down in the carb throats. Then, I checked fuel pump pressure, as best I could. I actually found a brand new fuel pressure gauge hanging right above my tool box that I had forgotten about. oh2: Fuel pressure was ok, fuel volume was ok. So now what? The only thing left was that damn pulse generator.
SO down on the floor I go again. I removed the cover for the generator, reached up in the to check the rotor, and....uh...well...it was still bolted up, but....it was solid....as in no advance working. Apparently, the washer I had installed was too large, diameter-wise, and it was locking the advance mechanism down, so it would not advance. Now, I'm not talking about the vacuum advance, but the mechanical advance of the rotor itself. I searched and searched, and finally came up with a flat washer that would fit inside of the outer part of the rotor, but still be large enough to hold the rotor to the shaft. I bolted it all up(with a dab of locktite on the bolt), checked to see that the advance would still twist, and then....hit the button and fire it up. Ran PERFECT! I could now twist the throttle full bore, and the engine responded immediately, with no hesitation, popping or farting...just the awesome sounds of VAAARRRRRROOOOOM!
So, what was basically causing the popping/farting was I had NO mechanical ignition advance. This is why the pipes were glowing red...as I had already mentioned that the only thing I could think of that would cause exhaust pipes to glow was stopped up exhaust, lean fuel conditions, or severely retarded timing. And that, boys and gurls, is what I had.
I buttoned everything back up, put all the bodywork back on it, took and filled it with fuel, and had Mama follow me down the hiway, and it's running like a top now.
I don't have any good pics of the rotor, or even the pulse generator, or I would post them to help explain what it was that was locked down. I'll search for some pics, and if I can find some, I'll post them.
I'm honestly fully embarrassed that this turned into such a freeking nightmare, but it was all MY FAULT. Hopefully, this experience will help keep someone else from making the same ******* mistakes I made on this project. I wanna thank ALL of the CGW members that pitched in and gave me support, and ideas on this thing...and also to the ones that calmed me down when I was ready to chunk it off a bridge.... :thanks:

SO...now...lemmie have it...I deserve it.....

oh2: :rtfm:

btw..this thing is runnin better than it ever has...it's got some bottom end that just won't quit!