Time for me to address the 800lb Gorilla in the room.(Engine knock thread) REVIVED!

Omega Man · Jun 4, 2010

Even though I've been going on about new found performance in the ATF thread, I think I have a problem. I sometimes hear a soft knock under fairly hard acceleration halfway through 3rd gear at about 3500rpm at which point I'm usually at the desired speed so I back off a little and it's gone. While cruising at any speed I never hear it. I'm more likely to hear in afternoon(warmer weather), but I have heard it in the morning(I climb a hill from the git-go). Sounds to me like a rod bearing from what I've gleaned from other threads. Is this the sad fact? Is cracking the engine and replacing the main bearings feasible for mid level beginner like me?

~O~

dan filipi · Jun 4, 2010

I'd have to hear it but my guess is you have nothing to worry about.
These are strong engines, Gerry can attest to that!

I have a knock which sounds more like it's coming from the top end exhaust valve area both sides so I'm thinkin it could be in the valve train. Someday when I have some money I'm going to have 2 heads completely reconditioned the right way at a head shop so I can at least rule out the heads.

To answer your question about replacing main and rod bearings, it's not a easy job but much preferred over getting a used engine in my book.

mcgovern61 · Jun 4, 2010

Omega Man":w3np0997 said:
Sounds to me like a rod bearing from what I've gleaned from other threads. Is this the sad fact? Is cracking the engine and replacing the main bearings feasible for mid level beginner like me? ~O~

The engine is easy to open and replace stuff! I opened up my original '82 engine it was pretty easy. I never opened up the replacement '81 engine because I was still using it and I knew that no matter what, it was going to cost $150 for the gasket set to close it up again and I knew I could get an engine for under $150 and swap it (which i did!).

As far as noise....I rode this '81 engine tapping/knocking (BTW at 3500 rpm) the entire time it was in the bike for the last two years at any speed and rpm and thought it should blow up (which it didn't). Talking to some other mechanic friends, they think that it loose journal bearings because it taps on start up until the oil pressure comes up. They also said it could run real long like that (which it did).

mcgovern61 · Jun 4, 2010

I priced out all bearings, gaskets and rings and it came up to about $400 plus tax. I decided that I would rebuild the '81 engine later (and try to find out where the tapping comes from) and just swap out the engine with a different runner to keep riding.

dan filipi · Jun 4, 2010

The engine is easy to open and replace stuff!

Oh sure, if you have 2 willing helpers that probably know more about these bikes than I do! :smilie_happy:

mcgovern61 · Jun 4, 2010

dan filipi":160xdu8d said:
The engine is easy to open and replace stuff!

Click to expand...

Oh sure, if you have 2 willing helpers that probably know more about these bikes than I do! :smilie_happy:

I do! One is 19 years old and the other is 12 years old! They helped open up that '82. We just went one group of nuts and bolts at a time! Seperating the halfs takes a little finese. :cool!:

Omega Man · Jun 4, 2010

OK, thanks guys that makes me feel better. I really does seem like it isn't that serious for now. It really is performing nicely at all other times. But I do realize it could go out at any time with a bearing issue.

~O~

mcgovern61 · Jun 4, 2010

See if these videos help. Listen to the tapping/knocking at 3-4K and see if it sounds the same. Mind you, I am purposely throttling hard to make it tap and I am speed shifting since I am holding the camera in my left hand. This engine kept right on running:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SyhI7BDnhE

In this video, it is a cold startup and you can hear the bearings rattle initially until the oil pressure comes up. Surprisingly, no smoke and 150 compression on all 4!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pksFHj4mLu8

dan filipi · Jun 4, 2010

Hey this looks like the makings for a new knocking thread :clapping: :clapping:

I'll be back with some video's.

Cold start:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FlEA5c8xl4
This was running cold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsA1sWavJYk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCMu4xe7LL0

mcgovern61 · Jun 4, 2010

dan filipi":2il3vlut said:
Hey this looks like the makings for a new knocking thread :clapping: :clapping:

I'll be back with some video's.

Yea...lets do it! :clapping: Sorry ~O~,we don't mean to make it sound worse than it is! But these engines can make some funny knocks that do not impede them from riding. :music2:

dan filipi · Jun 4, 2010

Yea sorry ~O~, we had a thread like this pre meltdown which was lost.

joedrum · Jun 4, 2010

gee ~O~....you know whatever i say is going to sound crazy buy if i were you the frist thing id do would be get rid of the thermostat and start runnig some thick oil right away.....heat is your number one enemy now and the cycling thermostat fucltulating the temp of the motor up and down is no asset now and running as cool as possible and consistantcy is best espiscaly now in the summer......stay out of the thortle enough to keep it from making a lot of noise.....thats what id do short term.....

start looking for a motor .....to me all motors are on the table 1000s 1100s ecept 80 81 mortors i know you like touring gears right....and 1200 motors except 84 1200 they wont bolt up without hitting the frame with there rear ignition deal.....

i would help you though any mods that would have to be done im going to do a 1200 mod into 83 1100 right now and gathering info and confidence now ...the 1000 mod ive already done in reverse on my bike the monguel which is easyer on your bike than mine was just a little ignition change the motors are equal in power and you get even better touring gears....

ithink your bike will last awhile like it is if you do the things ive said giving you time to find the best motor you can ....i think between all of us here and you there is enough confidence to go for it .....

dan filipi · Jun 4, 2010

At 2 and 5 seconds then again at 2:05 it can be heard the most. The rest of the vid is boring except when that truck was crowding me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY2d32A1gtU

joedrum · Jun 4, 2010

those are some pretty sick motors ......and you guys are right they will hang inthere as long as there running right....but if they start missing or runing on two clylinders like what happen to thomson they will all be toast in a hurry......

Omega Man · Jun 4, 2010

Holy Shnikes! Old girlfriend doesn't sound like that...I never hear it on start up either. I don't know maybe I'm overreacting(been known to happen).

I don't want to use this bike up, I'm thinking an addition may be possible. The cager will be paid off in a few months, and I have a serious desire for a 87 Aspy.

EDIT - Oh snap! Dans test video is close, what I hear is much softer.

~O~

mcgovern61 · Jun 4, 2010

Ok, one more for the noisy engine! Listen to the internals on this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS-71Bs_1Oc

Andyb · Jun 5, 2010

Dan, is the engine in the first videos the one you are running in your bike currently? If so, wow, these engines are bullet proof.

dan filipi · Jun 5, 2010

joedrum":2lv4ueik said:
those are some pretty sick motors ......and you guys are right they will hang inthere as long as there running right....but if they start missing or runing on two clylinders like what happen to thomson they will all be toast in a hurry......

The motor I have in those videos is a "good used" out of a 1981. I've put at least 15k miles on it since I shot those vids, it is running strong and I wouldn't hesitate to take it on 1000 mile trips or more because I've been inside it and know it's condition.

The noises were there when I first fired this engine, when I had it split open to put the '83 gear set in I checked the mains and everything else inside. Everything was within tolerance, even the oil pump. Someone had commented some of the noises could be piston slap, another said a flat cam.

This is the 3rd engine in this frame.
The original had a damaged cylinder liner, the second had bad oil rings and similar knock. The latest engine has 165 compression and doesn't use a drop of oil.

As far as running thick oil goes it might offer some extra cushion, in my case it didn't help quiet anything. I tried just about every product out there to thicken oil to try an locate the noises, none of it seemed to lessen any of it.

joedrum · Jun 5, 2010

wow dan that jogs my memory .....i bet that is the noise piston slap ......my dad had 1963 chevy truck he bought brand new and we had it 15 yrs or so it went though dad ,my brother and me and eventaly sold it ......it had piston slap 10+yrs and never came apart....i think me and my brother ran the crap out of it ,young you know and coulded break it....

yep thick oil wouldnt quiet that and will probably go from now on and die of something else if ever dose ......

it will minic a rod noise but never go out.....~O~ithink dan right ....its hard to tear up piston pin and rod but id stay below 7000 rpm .....heck 250,000 miles

if its not losing oil pressure to any great degree its not main or rod bearing ......i cant beleave i didnt think of that...way to go dan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dan filipi · Jun 5, 2010

I got a new vid this AM of start up but discovered my little Canon camera microphone isn't good enough to hear the cold startup "ding, ding".

I'm curious though, do your guy's bike start like this hard cold? It's only down to 60 in the garage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQOykUHlTxs

Time for me to address the 800lb Gorilla in the room.(Engine knock thread) REVIVED!

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