1100 head gaskets?

[Tory]

As some of you may remember last summer I chased an issue with lost coolant on my 83 1100i.
I had noticed it running a little hotter than normal,and before a 1000 mile weekend checked the radiator to find it down a little.But the overflow was overfilled just about as much as the radiator was down.
I transfered the coolant back to where it belonged,and went on our trip with no troubles.But 2000 miles later smelled anitfreeze slushing in the overlow jug,yet again over full.

I drain a bit of oil and there was no signs of coolant,nor is there signs of oil in coolant.
I pressured checked the system cold with no loss after an hour,but the cap seemed to leak down.I thought that would have been the issue and I replaced the cap and went on my merry way.

I did noticed after a few good rides the coolant level in the jug pushed up a half inch or so,but could have overfilled the radiator a bit right?Remember it takes a couple thousand miles to notice the temp rising a bit.

Fast forward to this year,I just took the bike for a quick cool 20 mile ride and noticed the temp up a fuzz over half.I think I might still have an issue.
It is very ridable,but I dont want to be thousand miles or more from home and have a bad head gasket spew on me.If there is a problem,I want to find it.

I did replace the head gaskets,water pump,and t-stat about 12,000 miles ago.Did not notice any issues untill this last late summer.

 

[dan filipi]

Did you put a new cap on, maybe it's not opening to draw the coolant back in while cooling.

I've learned a lot about these cooling systems with this 1200 overheating problem.

Are there any bubbles going into the recovery?
We're these head gasket from Honda?
Checked for leaks in the recovery hose and tube into the tank?

I've found this system can run a 1/2 quart low in the radiator and still run at normal temps on the gauge.

 

[RBG]

Check spark plugs after a run..any of them look steam cleaned?, smell your exhaust at idle when the bike is cold and then hot any change..sweet? Like Dan said bubbles in water while running check hot and cold. Be be small leak at head gasket that only opens up when running at normal temps. If you didn't; use OEM head gaskets that's my first guess.

over hose Ok, not collapsing on suck back?? air leak allowing over flow fill but sucking air when it cools down instead of water back into the radiator?

 

[joedrum]

i dont think its a head gasket from what your discribing. im with dan theres no problem with water going to resivour check hose for leaks or taking on air instead of returning coolant to radiator. hopfuly its not anything big and check all the little things first good hunting

 

[Tory]

Yes,I did replace the cap last summer.
Yes I did use honda gaskets,but its been a couple 3 years.
I cant see the overflow fill,its to slow of process,and dont see bubbles.
I didnt replace the hose to the tank,but will as well as a cumbustion leak test just to make myself feel better.

I havent gotten a good ride in yet this year(michigan)and may just be over paranoid,you know how it is when you over focus on something.

 

[dan filipi]

There's a fitting in the recovery tank the hose connects to. It's part of a grommet attached to the tank. It's a one piece assembly which includes the hose that goes to the bottom of the tank.
My old one broke at the grommet inside the tank and would suck air. I had a tank with a good hose so I swapped the whole thing over. I'd have a look there. I'm not sure how this hose and grommet could be tested for leaks without taking it out and taking it out might break it, the rubber is brittle now.
That's what it sounds like to me, break in that line isnt large enough to leak coolant but large enough to let it suck air instead of coolant.

 

[Tory]

Thanks dan,Ill check it out.

 

[Dave]

There's a fitting in the recovery tank the hose connects to. It's part of a grommet attached to the tank. It's a one piece assembly which includes the hose that goes to the bottom of the tank.
My old one broke at the grommet inside the tank and would suck air. I had a tank with a good hose so I swapped the whole thing over.

Had this happen on my old GPZ900. 2 Different mechanics told me the engine rebuild required to fix my unfindable coolant leak would cost more than a new(er) bike!
Fixed it by fitting a blank grommet from the Auto shop and fitting a new lenght of hose thru it to the bottom of the tank :music2:

 

[Tory]

Well,
I did a combustion test saterday,and I am diffinitly getting exhuast in the coolant.
I was only a 1/2 pint low, but it was enough to make it run a bit warmer.I guess Ill be pulling the heads off.
I will send them out to be checked this time,but when I originally did them 20,000 miles ago they were not acually bad.The water pump was the issue that time.

I seem to think they where honda gaskets,but the guy I got them from says it was not a gasket set from honda.

Would the aftermarkets fail so quickly?Or should I be looking for a cracked head or such?

In the automotive market the aftermarkets are usually better that original when it comes to gaskets.

 

[dan filipi]

Would the aftermarkets fail so quickly?Or should I be looking for a cracked head or such?

I had a head gasket from Saber Cycle start leaking in less than 1000 miles. The other side which was also from them started leaking after a couple thousand.

Cracked heads on these beasts is rare, except when I'm working on them :head bang:

 

[OldWrench]

I don’t have much experience with these 1100s but have with many engines. I never replace a head gasket without having the head and block surface checked. Many people will have the head surfaced and neglect to check the block surface.

Also I always re-torque the head after warming the engine up. I know it is a bit more work and on some engines a lot of work but over the years have found it is well worth the effort.

 

[dan filipi]

After the 2 times I had a Saber Cycle head gasket let go I've used Copper Coat. I've used it over the years successfully on auto's also.
It comes in a rattle can which you spray on both sides of the gasket.
What it does is coats the gasket and will fill any voids in both the head and block surface much like silicone does when spread on a gasket.
Many old timers would spray on aluminum paint which acts much the same way.

There are mixed opinions about applying anything to the Honda head gaskets. Even the shop of 30+ years thought the Honda gaskets are coated with a sealer so Copper Coat isn't necessary. I know this stuff works so I use it.

Whether going on dry or with any sealer, the torquing procedure is very important.
First off, the head bolts need to turn without any resistance, always a good idea to chase the block and bolt threads and make certain the threads are completely clean. I spray in carb cleaner then give the holes a shot of compressed air.
The threads, under side of the bolt head, and the washer need to be lubricated. Honda recommends using Moly 60.
The whole idea is to make sure the 40 lbs. torque being applied to the head bolts is actually 40 lbs tightening pressure against the head, block, and gasket. 40 lbs. torque is pretty low for head gaskets so this is even more important to get right.

The last heads I did I found one of the locating pins was slightly nicked on the side. Anything getting in the way of the head going down tightly against the gasket and block is a problem. What I do from now on as a preliminary check is to completely clean the head and block, check it for flat, then set it in place without the gasket to make sure the head will seat all the way down to the block.

Head shops have told me more important than the final torque value is the tightening sequence and done evenly.
It's been suggested to me many times to torque in 3 passes so I go to 10 lbs then 25 then 40 rechecking and tightening to each step at least 3 times before going up to the next torque value.

After running I retorque.
I've done about a dozen 4 cylinder head gaskets, none of them have ever tightened any further either cold or hot but I still do it.

 

[Dano]

I had the same problem you described and after the second disassembly I noticed that the area around the steel sleeve of the cylinder was pitted, and this is part of the sealing surface. I used a machined block with 400 grit paper to face this as flat as I could make it, and have had no problems since. This 1980 of mine had, for some time a problem with leaking fuel from one or more of the carbs into the cylinders, and I believe this was at least part of the cause to begin with. Hope this helps some, Regards.

 

[wallyworld136]

I think I have head gasket leak possibly as I have described in "83 GL1100 Vacuum and Compression Testing". OldWrench's suggestion on surfaces is probably right.

But one question I wanted to ask? What does your temp run? Middle or higher on guage?
I bought a different FAN SWITCH on eBay year before last. It comes on at lower temps for hotter climates and has changed a lot of dynamics, especially for distance running.

Unfortunately, other problems came when I let her sit awhile, rebuilt carbs 2 months ago and been diagnosing and testing since.

Just some out loud thinking..

 

[dan filipi]

What does your temp run? .

Out on the highway in temps below 90 degrees mine will run right at the bottom of the thick line, above 90 it'll run closer to the middle.
Around town stop and go the gauge will go up to slightly above 3/4 then the fan comes on. The fan will run to just below 1/2 then shut off.
I've found in more than a few instances if your temp is running higher than this with good coolant flow and clean radiator, good thermostat, then look for a leaking head gasket.

 

[OldWrench]

Dan now your giving away our trade secrets. I forgot to mention the coper coat and I use it, it does a great job on head gaskets that don't have a sealer Speaking of parts suppliers, I'm kind of a guy that likes to go with OEM stuff when I can. I for one have had many problems with aftermarket stuff, but sometimes you have no choice.

 

[Tory]

Do I apply the copper coat to the gaskets?

Both sides?


I am an autoparts salesmen to garages,farms and fleets.In the automotive side,aftermarket gaskets have improved on OE problem areas such as GM intake gasket issues,upgraded EGR gaskets filtering out carbon,head gasket shims for quad 4s ect...The term is if the OE was so good,why are you fixing it at only 65,000 miles?In most cases,if you bought it from the local dealer,they probably bought it from me.

I am getting use to buying honda brand with the bike more everyday.

Thanks for the help,honda gaskets on the way,and Ill have the heads checked at my shop this time.

 

[dan filipi]

Do I apply the copper coat to the gaskets?

Both sides?

Yes, apply to both sides of the gasket.

Instructions are on the can how it should be applied but I don't think it says how many coats or how thick.
I spray on a couple thin coats, waiting a minute or so between coats built up enough to cover the gasket so none of the gasket shows thru then after 10 minutes or so assemble.

https://www.crcindustries.com/auto/conte ... aspx?ID=54

 

[handyrandy]

Hello, I am new here and have a blown head gasket also. I am having trouble finding a honda head gasket let alone a top end gasket kit. All the parts in the kit have been discontinued by honda. I am looking at a vesrah kit. It seems we are running out of oem head gaskets for the 1100s

 

[dan filipi]

Hello, I am new here and have a blown head gasket also. I am having trouble finding a honda head gasket let alone a top end gasket kit. All the parts in the kit have been discontinued by honda. I am looking at a vesrah kit. It seems we are running out of oem head gaskets for the 1100s

Honda dealers can still order them as well as the online suppliers like cheapcycleparts.com

Have you tried them?