'85/'86 100 GW CFI ECU PnP Replacement
- Thread starter Rednaxs60
- Start date
Help Support Classic Goldwings:
OP
OP
I have two that I will not be using. The first one I drilled myself but it went off centre. I used a file to make the key slot in the trigger wheel. The second one a machine shop did. Drill the centre hole first then the keyway.
OP
OP
Having prepared a document for discussion, next step is to discuss the engine tuning aspect.
This involves the engine tuning software, Tuner Studio (TS) and analysis software, MegaLogViewer (MLV). Replacing the ECU without these software programs is a futile project. Licensed versions are highly recommended.
There are generic settings that can be used initially that will get the engine started. The engine tune can then be adjusted/calibrated/dialed in, call it what you will, but this is where the fun begins.
There are so many parameters, settings that you can adjust/calibrate, and because of this, you may be tempted to go forth at the high port and start the engine tuning process quickly. This is not recommended. The way forward is to plan the engine tuning process and execute the plan. As a novice engine tuner, not following a logical tuning plan you will go down the proverbial rabbit hole, BTDT. This extends the engine tuning process significantly.
There is a significant amount of information regarding how to start on the Speeduino forum, you only need to do the research to become more informed.
There are many parameters/settings that you do not require to have enabled/turned on at the start. Make a list of these and when necessary to advance the engine tune, enable/turn on a parameter/setting, one at a time.
The first issue that will need to be addressed prior to an engine first start is engine timing. There is information on how to calculate an initial trigger angle. Once this is done, you will need to verify the initial trigger angle with a timing light before an engine start.
Understanding what is meant by base/initial timing is imperative. Base/initial engine timing is engine timing at idle. For the 1200 GW, this is approximately 11 degrees BTDC.
This can be done the old school way and that is by setting the engine with #1 cylinder at TDC using the "T1" crankshaft mark. Mark the crank trigger wheel. Rotate the crankshaft to the "F1" crankshaft mark. This is approximately 11 degrees BTDC. You should see the crankshaft turn counterclockwise approximately 10 mm. Mark the crank trigger wheel.
The above is mentioned and is intended to be used with an engine casing timing pointer. Using the engine timing port to do this is not easy, have to deal with oil obscuring the crankshaft timing marks, and needing an adapter to prevent engine oil from "spewing" out of the engine timing port.
The calculated trigger angle can now be verified with a timing light without starting the engine. Adjust the trigger angle, +/-, until the engine timing mark aligns with the mark for 11 degrees BTDC. Once this is done, time to start the engine.
Once the engine is started, adjust the engine idle screw until the engine continues to operate relatively smoothly. Adjust the VE (fuel) table to provide the engine with the fuel it requires.
The VE (fuel) table cell values will require adjusting/reclaibrating to suit the engine. This is due to the health of the engine, compression and such.
When calibrating the VE (fuel) table, the cell values are a percentage of the total amount of fuel required for WOT/maximum engine power. WOT/maximum engine power is 100%. Any number lower than this indicates that only a percentage of fuel is being injected into the engine. This means that if the cell value is 50%, only half od the fuel required for WOT/maximum engine power is being injected into the engine.
The concept for engine tuning is to provide the engine with what it needs, specifically fuel. When you read that you need to get control of the engine fuelling, calibrating the VE (fuel) table cell values is what is meant. After the initial engine start, remove the spark plugs, if black, sooty reduce the VE (fuel) table cell values before the next engine start. Recommend lowering the cell values by a value of 5, if at 45 reduce to 40.
Spark plug reading in conjunction with the installed WBO2 sensor will be the indicators of choice for the initial engine idle tuning, and road trials. The spark plug porcelain should be close to a whitish colour.
As the idle engine tune is developed, you will be adjusting the engine idle downwards to approximately 1000 RPM, have the MAP reading as low as possible, and the spark plug porcelain is as close as possible to a whitish colour.
Engine idle timing may need to be adjusted as well. Once you have the VE (fuel) table cell values calibrated, calibrate the engine idle timing to suit.
This post is an introduction to initial engine tuning. It's more complex than this, but this post should be used for information only.
Cheers
This involves the engine tuning software, Tuner Studio (TS) and analysis software, MegaLogViewer (MLV). Replacing the ECU without these software programs is a futile project. Licensed versions are highly recommended.
There are generic settings that can be used initially that will get the engine started. The engine tune can then be adjusted/calibrated/dialed in, call it what you will, but this is where the fun begins.
There are so many parameters, settings that you can adjust/calibrate, and because of this, you may be tempted to go forth at the high port and start the engine tuning process quickly. This is not recommended. The way forward is to plan the engine tuning process and execute the plan. As a novice engine tuner, not following a logical tuning plan you will go down the proverbial rabbit hole, BTDT. This extends the engine tuning process significantly.
There is a significant amount of information regarding how to start on the Speeduino forum, you only need to do the research to become more informed.
There are many parameters/settings that you do not require to have enabled/turned on at the start. Make a list of these and when necessary to advance the engine tune, enable/turn on a parameter/setting, one at a time.
The first issue that will need to be addressed prior to an engine first start is engine timing. There is information on how to calculate an initial trigger angle. Once this is done, you will need to verify the initial trigger angle with a timing light before an engine start.
Understanding what is meant by base/initial timing is imperative. Base/initial engine timing is engine timing at idle. For the 1200 GW, this is approximately 11 degrees BTDC.
This can be done the old school way and that is by setting the engine with #1 cylinder at TDC using the "T1" crankshaft mark. Mark the crank trigger wheel. Rotate the crankshaft to the "F1" crankshaft mark. This is approximately 11 degrees BTDC. You should see the crankshaft turn counterclockwise approximately 10 mm. Mark the crank trigger wheel.
The above is mentioned and is intended to be used with an engine casing timing pointer. Using the engine timing port to do this is not easy, have to deal with oil obscuring the crankshaft timing marks, and needing an adapter to prevent engine oil from "spewing" out of the engine timing port.
The calculated trigger angle can now be verified with a timing light without starting the engine. Adjust the trigger angle, +/-, until the engine timing mark aligns with the mark for 11 degrees BTDC. Once this is done, time to start the engine.
Once the engine is started, adjust the engine idle screw until the engine continues to operate relatively smoothly. Adjust the VE (fuel) table to provide the engine with the fuel it requires.
The VE (fuel) table cell values will require adjusting/reclaibrating to suit the engine. This is due to the health of the engine, compression and such.
When calibrating the VE (fuel) table, the cell values are a percentage of the total amount of fuel required for WOT/maximum engine power. WOT/maximum engine power is 100%. Any number lower than this indicates that only a percentage of fuel is being injected into the engine. This means that if the cell value is 50%, only half od the fuel required for WOT/maximum engine power is being injected into the engine.
The concept for engine tuning is to provide the engine with what it needs, specifically fuel. When you read that you need to get control of the engine fuelling, calibrating the VE (fuel) table cell values is what is meant. After the initial engine start, remove the spark plugs, if black, sooty reduce the VE (fuel) table cell values before the next engine start. Recommend lowering the cell values by a value of 5, if at 45 reduce to 40.
Spark plug reading in conjunction with the installed WBO2 sensor will be the indicators of choice for the initial engine idle tuning, and road trials. The spark plug porcelain should be close to a whitish colour.
As the idle engine tune is developed, you will be adjusting the engine idle downwards to approximately 1000 RPM, have the MAP reading as low as possible, and the spark plug porcelain is as close as possible to a whitish colour.
Engine idle timing may need to be adjusted as well. Once you have the VE (fuel) table cell values calibrated, calibrate the engine idle timing to suit.
This post is an introduction to initial engine tuning. It's more complex than this, but this post should be used for information only.
Cheers
OP
OP
Don't know if my ramblings can be called a GW EFI "Bible". There is very little information available regarding the "nuts and bolts" for a GW EFI conversion or upgrade. These ramblings are from the school of hard knocks that I have been to.
To aid in a conversion, pick the aftermarket ECU of choice. Everything else will be a result of this. Components that work with the new ECU, what tuning/analytic software programs are needed. Get the manuals for this new installation, read then read again. Visit the various forums for additional information.
My focus is on the Speeduino Project ECU. The Megasquirt family of ECUs is alive and well, but not much additional development going on. There are others as well, but all are different in some way or another, and as such, once the ECU is decided on, don't mix and match - won't work.
When I started looking into a CFI ECU replacement, considered a Megasquirt ECU. My thoughts are that it is similar to an Apple laptop, a box that you have to work within, and branching out is not that easy. The Speeduino Project ECU is entirely different, very dynamic and still evolving/progressing.
The new Speeduino Dropbear ECU is quite good. 8 ignition and fuel channels as well as some other neat features - still evolving. Sequential fuelling and ignition is now available for up to 8 cylinders, or paired scenarios. It is used in the Turbinator II, a Salt Flats go fast. I have no business interest in the Speeduino Project, just like the product:
This includes the Honda CFI system. Don't try to emulate it, won't work. You can get close; however, the best recommendation is to use what Honda has done as information and a possible guide, and treat the conversion/upgrade as a new EFI project. Information regarding engine timing is relevant, but once past this, it's a new install. This is true for an upgrade to the '85/'86 CFI system as well.
I have just changed the. crankshaft trigger wheel from the OEM 8 tooth trigger wheel to a 36 tooth trigger wheel. It was a 36-1 missing tooth trigger wheel but I mig welded a tooth in the missing tooth spot for a true 36 tooth trigger wheel. The only install change I foresee is engine timing, and this is relatively easy at this point. This will probably a confirmation check. Quick and dirty change, and back on the road.
There is a thread on the Steve Saunders forum regarding the fuel pump gasket for the 80-83 1100. An alternative may be coming, but there is a small market for new components such as this. The best way, IMHO, to keep these older GWs on the road is to convert to EFI. There will be parts/components available for a long time.
These bikes are not for the faint of heart. Hard to compete with newer models that have all the bells and whistles. I will have another RE Himalayan. Hard to beat a sub-10K CDN bike that gets 90 IMPG. A seat and suspension upgrade and you can ride all day long at 100 KPH, it's a go anywhere bike. This being mentioned, it is not a GW.
Having mentioned the above, start gathering information about a possible EFI install. Search for relevant information, watch videos regarding the ECU of choice and others for additional information. Determine the project definition. Are you able to fabricate parts for component installation? Investigate electrical requirement(s), an EFI system is a power pig - should you install an external alternator mod?
Lots of pre-project work to do. Cheers
To aid in a conversion, pick the aftermarket ECU of choice. Everything else will be a result of this. Components that work with the new ECU, what tuning/analytic software programs are needed. Get the manuals for this new installation, read then read again. Visit the various forums for additional information.
My focus is on the Speeduino Project ECU. The Megasquirt family of ECUs is alive and well, but not much additional development going on. There are others as well, but all are different in some way or another, and as such, once the ECU is decided on, don't mix and match - won't work.
When I started looking into a CFI ECU replacement, considered a Megasquirt ECU. My thoughts are that it is similar to an Apple laptop, a box that you have to work within, and branching out is not that easy. The Speeduino Project ECU is entirely different, very dynamic and still evolving/progressing.
The new Speeduino Dropbear ECU is quite good. 8 ignition and fuel channels as well as some other neat features - still evolving. Sequential fuelling and ignition is now available for up to 8 cylinders, or paired scenarios. It is used in the Turbinator II, a Salt Flats go fast. I have no business interest in the Speeduino Project, just like the product:
This includes the Honda CFI system. Don't try to emulate it, won't work. You can get close; however, the best recommendation is to use what Honda has done as information and a possible guide, and treat the conversion/upgrade as a new EFI project. Information regarding engine timing is relevant, but once past this, it's a new install. This is true for an upgrade to the '85/'86 CFI system as well.
I have just changed the. crankshaft trigger wheel from the OEM 8 tooth trigger wheel to a 36 tooth trigger wheel. It was a 36-1 missing tooth trigger wheel but I mig welded a tooth in the missing tooth spot for a true 36 tooth trigger wheel. The only install change I foresee is engine timing, and this is relatively easy at this point. This will probably a confirmation check. Quick and dirty change, and back on the road.
There is a thread on the Steve Saunders forum regarding the fuel pump gasket for the 80-83 1100. An alternative may be coming, but there is a small market for new components such as this. The best way, IMHO, to keep these older GWs on the road is to convert to EFI. There will be parts/components available for a long time.
These bikes are not for the faint of heart. Hard to compete with newer models that have all the bells and whistles. I will have another RE Himalayan. Hard to beat a sub-10K CDN bike that gets 90 IMPG. A seat and suspension upgrade and you can ride all day long at 100 KPH, it's a go anywhere bike. This being mentioned, it is not a GW.
Having mentioned the above, start gathering information about a possible EFI install. Search for relevant information, watch videos regarding the ECU of choice and others for additional information. Determine the project definition. Are you able to fabricate parts for component installation? Investigate electrical requirement(s), an EFI system is a power pig - should you install an external alternator mod?
Lots of pre-project work to do. Cheers
theailer
Member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2024
- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
- 7
- Location
- Sweden
- My Bike Models
- GL1100 -82
XR650R -02
WR250F -21
if you have a trigger wheel without a missing tooth then your engine need to rely on the cam sync signal right? What’s the benefit of a trigger wheel without a missing tooth? And can you also share pics of it? I’m still interested in the key of the pilot hole 
OP
OP
You are correct regarding the crank trigger wheel. You can use a crank trigger wheel with a missing tooth in the dual wheel mode, just means there will be a very slight interuprtsion in the crank signal to the ECU. I chose to add a tooth in the missing tooth spot just because. The camshaft signal is for the engine cycle.
My CFI system is operating in the dual wheel mode with crank and camshaft signals to the ECU. Need this because the engine has sequential fuel and ignition. I have installed the 36 tooth trigger wheel so pics are a no go. The picture in post #17 should be self-explanatory, drill the centre hole the size of the crankshaft and then notch for a small key. You have to make the decision how you intend to install EFI conversion.
The use of a camshaft sensor orients the ECU such that the ECU knows where the cylinder TDCs are. The ECU is "guesstimating" where #1 TDC and other TDCs are if not using a camshaft sensor. Installing a camshaft sensor at the start "future proofs" the EFI instal.
My CFI system is operating in the dual wheel mode with crank and camshaft signals to the ECU. Need this because the engine has sequential fuel and ignition. I have installed the 36 tooth trigger wheel so pics are a no go. The picture in post #17 should be self-explanatory, drill the centre hole the size of the crankshaft and then notch for a small key. You have to make the decision how you intend to install EFI conversion.
The use of a camshaft sensor orients the ECU such that the ECU knows where the cylinder TDCs are. The ECU is "guesstimating" where #1 TDC and other TDCs are if not using a camshaft sensor. Installing a camshaft sensor at the start "future proofs" the EFI instal.
OP
OP
Additional recommendation. Learn and use a schematic software. There are many on the market. I have been using KiCad, open source software. You can also produce PCB designs for production.
OP
OP
OP
OP
Reading this document is interesting, specifically about engine timing. The ignition map will be different for the 1200 GW; however, the author mentions that the ignition advance reduces as load increases. Understand the potential rationale - sort of makes sense, but more research into this will be necessary to corroborate the theory. If the theory works out, will be a bit of a game changer when tuning the Speeduino ECU spark (ignition timing) table, and a new thread specifically for EFI ignition timing will need to be started.
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
Rabbit hole aka 1983 GL1100 Interstate "refresh" a bike that sat over four years.- Latest: RussSutherland
-
-
-
-