Auto Advice - CV joints, drive shafts, wheel bearings

[mcgovern61]

Not an MC topic, but I respect the opinions of the many knowledgable auto mechanics we have here. I have a 2002 Ford Taurus with 128,900 miles on it. The front wheel bearings seem tight, but wobble at high speeds causing the steering wheel to shake a bit. (Tires are balanced). The front rotors warped (again) in less than 18K miles which exasperated the wheel bearing condition with massive pulsating when coming to a stop. Turns out, after 48K miles on the rear brakes, I check them and found the rear shoes hardly worn......the adjusters had failed......back brakes barely touched the drums.......front brakes took all the heat causing them to warp.

My question is.....since I will be replacing the front wheel bearings on both sides (they are actually bearing hubs) should I consider replacing the intermediate drive shafts? The CV joint boots are OK, no grease leaking and no clicking/clunking when turning, but near 130K miles? I have to disconnect the outer CV joint and pull the shaft out anyway to get the wheel bearing hub off, just don't want to miss an opportunity. (Not that I am interested in spending more money than I need to!)

 

[joedrum]

there is undoubtably some repercusions from the front drive bearing and brake heat for sure ....its to close not to ...but umless it shows somthing big in appearence id sey the shaft is fine it would more likely effect a less stout part than the shaft itself

 

[slabghost]

No clicking in turns. Leave the CV axles alone. Mine had over 160k on it when I noticed the boots were torn. That was 2 years ago and they finally do need replaced. I didn't replace the boots because they are only $20 less than the whole cv axle. This is on my Subaru.

 

[dan filipi]

but wobble at high speeds causing the steering wheel to shake a bit.

I don't know the Taurus, do they have struts?

Every car I had with shake like that turned out to be bad struts.
Besides I don't think a loose wheel bearing would cause a shake in the steering wheel, especially if they feel tight.
The struts play a huge roll in controlling the wheels and steering.

 

[Tory]

I dont think your hubs are bad,but the pounding roters could cause this wobble at high speed as well.
If the hubs dont feel loose,and there is no bearing noise,and the axles are not noisy or have a tear in the boot,then my advice would be to fix the rear brakes,replace the front pads and rotors inspect the strut mounts and dont fix what isnt broke.

If you jack the car up and grab the strut and see if there is movement in the upper mount.
If you do end up needing struts,check into complete assemblys.The cost is not much more and you get the complete strut,mount and spring already assembled ready to put on without the need to bring them to a shop,or the need for any special tools.
The ones I generally sell the garages for your tauras is a MONROE 181615.They sell for about $100.00 a side.

But again,dont fix what isnt broke,and dont overthink it.Although most of my business is wholesale,with the downswing of the economy Ive been seeing more do it your-selfers than ever,and even though they are saving on the high labor fees,they usually end up spending more money do to mis-diagnosing and replacing parts they dont need.

SO
Shake it down good,fix the rear and replace the rotors first.

 

[dan filipi]

Never thought to ask, does the wheel shake come on when hitting the brakes only?
That's the warped rotors, no?

 

[mcgovern61]

Thanks for all of the advice! :thanks:

Dan..the wheel shake is at above 65 MPH and worsens as the speed increases. The front end also wobbled (separately) when you hit the brakes so I knew the rotors were warped. I changed the front pads, rotors and rear brakes and the shaking when stopping is gone! (Kinda knew that would be the case). But the high speed wobble/shake is still there although dimished a touch. I also had a 2000 Taurus wagon that went through the same thing, it had over 158K miles on it and needed other work that ended up costing near $4k if I followed through....I didn't, I bought a 2011 Ford Focus instead. I never did change out those wheel bearings but was pretty sure it was the same thing.

I cannot get free side to side or up and down movement from the bearing hubs that would have indicated bad bearings on my other cars in the past, but it is also a full hub, not just bearings in a race. The reason I think it is bearings is because at 70-75 MPH in a straight line it wobbles good. Go into a long leaning turn on the highway and it about eliminates the shaking.

Tory, I will definately check the struts too before I do any changes.

 

[AApple]

Along with all that has been mentioned, I'll throw in that a worn inner, or outer tie-rod end can cause the wobble, both on or off the brakes. Taurus brake rotors are junk to start with....they've been known to warp severely at 20,000 miles...
No noises.clicks/clunks, or howling, I'd do the rotors, and check the rack/pinion & tie-rod ends...

 

[mcgovern61]

Along with all that has been mentioned, I'll throw in that a worn inner, or outer tie-rod end can cause the wobble, both on or off the brakes. Taurus brake rotors are junk to start with....they've been known to warp severely at 20,000 miles...
No noises.clicks/clunks, or howling, I'd do the rotors, and check the rack/pinion & tie-rod ends...

Joel, on the rack and pinion, when I grab the wheel and push left or right, there is what I classify as "gear lash" in the rack. I assume that there is a limitation on this. Not talking much, but certainly not "very tight". Also, when I rotate the tire forward and then backward, there is also a gear lash sound coming from the trans. Again, I do not think it is out of the ordinary.

As far as Taurus rotors...it is systemic with Ford......as far back as our '69 LTD wagon, '78 Fairmount, '94 Aerostar, '95 Windstar, '98 Escort LX, '00 Taurus wagon and '02 Taurus sedan....they have all had the same issue with front rotors! Ford has been under engineering the front brakes for as long as I can remember! All of those listed vehicles were very reliable otherwise and never left me on the side of the road, but I wish I could get paid in gold for the amount of front brakes and rotors we have had to repair/replace long before I thought they should have been. I am under the opinion that they never really engineered the whole brake system to work together for longevity of the components. I had an '86 Suburu GL wagon from new through 189K miles that only had the rotors replaced once! On this Taurus sedan, this is the 4th set of rotors (not counting the originals)!

 

[dan filipi]

F.O.R.D

Fix Or Repair Daily

Found On Road Deserted


Just kidding around.
I had a Ford van was very reliable.

Every make has its faults.

 

[AApple]

Joel, on the rack and pinion, when I grab the wheel and push left or right, there is what I classify as "gear lash" in the rack. I assume that there is a limitation on this. Not talking much, but certainly not "very tight". Also, when I rotate the tire forward and then backward, there is also a gear lash sound coming from the trans. Again, I do not think it is out of the ordinary.

"Technically", there should be NO play in the rack, or tie-rods. Of course, anything with some miles is gonna have some. How much is too much, tho? I'd say if you can feel it "bang/clunk" as you move the tire back-forth, it's prolly too much. BUT...is that what's causing the wobble? Could be.
You say the tires are balanced, but how old are they and how much wear do they show all the way around?
Is the wobble something that just kinda started, or has it had this problem for a while?
Warped brake rotors will cause a shimmy/wobble when you apply the brakes, but not while just cruizin down the road...unless the hub itself is bent, which is rare.

It'sa head scratcher... :headscratch:

 

[mcgovern61]

"Technically", there should be NO play in the rack, or tie-rods. Of course, anything with some miles is gonna have some. How much is too much, tho? I'd say if you can feel it "bang/clunk" as you move the tire back-forth, it's prolly too much. BUT...is that what's causing the wobble? Could be.
You say the tires are balanced, but how old are they and how much wear do they show all the way around?
Is the wobble something that just kinda started, or has it had this problem for a while?
Warped brake rotors will cause a shimmy/wobble when you apply the brakes, but not while just cruizin down the road...unless the hub itself is bent, which is rare.

It'sa head scratcher... :headscratch:

Tires are at 70% of their tread life, but were balanced recently. The shimmy/wobble started about a year ago and has been progressing since. It is my wife's car and I haven't been driving it so I was not aware it was worsening until I had to use it a few weeks ago. Low and behold, I find all kinds of neat things that needed repair! :smilie_happy:

She tends to start...drive....and stop only! My oldest daughter drove the '98 Escort with the right front tire missing for a while, did not know it and just turned up the radio to overcome the loud scraping sounds! (it went flat and she drove on it until it shredded)

 

[dan filipi]

Only until finding the cause is it a mystery.

To keep from throwing money at it I would approach this as one thing at a time by first checking carefully each tire does not have a out of round spot or any damage by turning it slowly in the air, then...spin it around looking for out of round.
A shop told me once it's possible to balance a square tire so "in balance" doesn't mean you won't feel things going down the road.
Money tight I would rotate the tires front to rear and see if the wobble changes.

Same shop told me if you feel anything in the steering, it's front tire problem, if in the seat it's rear tire problem.
Both advices have held true in my 40 years of driving.

I think by rotating you should be able to tell if it's a tire or wheel problem first.

If no change then go in deeper.

Like Joel say's, there really shouldn't be any steering play but if there is then tire balance will exacerbate (correct word?) any feedback to the steering wheel as well as lack of control from worn shocks.

IMO, if the shocks have more than 50k miles they are due.
Heck I replaced the originals on both my new cars within 6 months of buying them with Monroe's, big improvement in ride smoothness and control.

If you do have any steering play I'd go after that.

I still don't think wheel bearing play would cause any sort of wobble because the linkage and shocks exist to control the wheel.

Check closely for any oil residue around the struts/shocks.
If any, the shock has blown a seal.

Also,,,,,my first experience with struts was a Ford Capri.
The steering wheel would wobble a small amount starting around 45 then violently at 50-55, a real head scratcher for a kid and his first car before the internet helping to troubleshoot.
This was an incredibly violent wobble, scared the crap outa me the first time.
It came on slow with no wobble when I bought it which got worse with miles.
Turned out after finding the above shop this car was notorious for a wobble at that speed.
I wonder if the Taurus has a similar characteristic that will worsen.

Next time was my Chevy 4 wheel drive I put big tires on.
After putting dual shocks on it no more wobble.
A steering dampener helped also.

 

[mcgovern61]

Again..great information and it gives me plenty to check before tearing out the hubs! :thanks:

 

[slabghost]

Struts are about your best bet here I think.

 

[macka]

check your brake calipers. I just did mine on the tan van. It was doing the exact same thing. It also helps the rotors warp quicker.

 

[danf]

Tie rod, probably... My friends van did that and it was the tie rod... You may also check and see if the weights are still on the wheel from when they balanced them last, they can come off.. Or switch wheels front and rear and try it, try something that doesn't cost you anything first...And go from there...That's what I would do...

 

[mcgovern61]

Well I was planning on doing some investigative work this week end since last week end my Wife and I headed down to South Carolina for our 25th anniversary. Tonight we met at a camp my daughter goes to for a fall retreat and on the way home THE LEFT REAR WHEEL CYLINDER POPPED!!! :cheeky: :rant: :rant:

Too far from home to drive and take a chance, we had to call AAA to get it towed! :rant: :rant:

So much for do it your self!!! Now I have to pay to get the cylinder replaced and replace the brand new shoes! Lesson learned....when you know there is something small amiss......DON'T WAIT TO FIX IT! :whip: :rant:

 

[danf]

Oh man that sucks, that happened to my 85 Toyota pickup, blew out the rear driverside brake cylinder on a trip from Al. to Tx, you'll never guess what I did...well on the Toyota's the brake lines T at the rear end or thereabout and go both ways to each wheel , the line screws in at that T, I removed the line from the T and removed the bleeder bolt from the back of the wheel area, I then placed the bleeder bolt into the T connection thus blocking any fluid from that line, yes it just so happened to fit it, now I only have three brakes ...I did have to bleed the other side now to get the air out of the line and I'm glad someone was with me to help pump the brakes...But I went on and fixed it proper once I got home..I have no idea what your brakes look like or if you could have done the same..Maybe...I had my nephew with me to help ..I'm sorry this happened to you...

 

[joedrum]

beave we do the same kind of things ive done trhat more than once :hihihi: :mrgreen: