Front brakes are mushy, what should I try?

[slabghost]

mcgovern61 » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:25 pm[/url]":1k7btshh]
Air gets trapped in the top of the cylinders right at the bleeding screws.

The procedure I use that has worked every single time is simple and it does not matter if you pulled the hoses and started with an empty master, it always works for me.

1. Take both calipers off and push the pistons all the way back in. Clamp them there.
2. Fill the master, leave the lid off.
3. Gently pull the brake lever to get fluid into the piston in the master. (You should see fluid movement and might see air bubbles).
4. Pull brake handle all the way back to the grip and hold while cracking the right side bleed screw. (You are not trying to get a hard handle yet, just push fluid and air through).
5. Top the master as needed DO NOT LET THE MASTER GO BELOW HALF!
6. Keep bleeding the right side caliper until it is fluid only. Leave clamped and repeat for left side.
7. When both sides are showing fluid only, put right side back on caliper upper bolt leaving it tilted up so that the bleeder screw is at the top. Pull the handle but do not go all the way to the grip, just push the pistons slowing back into place (still on right side only).
8. Now, bleed the right side like normal building pressure and getting air out.
9. Once handle is firm, leave the right side caliper like that and perform the same procedure on the left side per steps 5 through 8.
10. Once bled and handle is firm, but calipers back on both bolts and ride!

:yes: :moped:

 

[chuck c]

I don't call that simple but I can try it I guess. WTF is this so hard? I've worked on brakes many times and never had this much trouble getting the air out! If it requires that kind of dance to make it work, it's a bad design!

 

[slabghost]

Front calipers ARE bad design. If you don't turn them so bleeder is straight up you will never get the little air bubble out.

 

[Denver]

The lines i spoke of have been on high dollar car's for year's. :read: Just enough nickle in the mix to make them stronger than steel, & they will never rust. :nea: Have a double flair, flairing tool, makes nice line's, & everything stay's in place, after you fish it through to it's final place. :good:

 

[slabghost]

Denver » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:50 pm[/url]":3mzwwnkj]
The lines i spoke of have been on high dollar car's for year's. :read: Just enough nickle in the mix to make them stronger than steel, & they will never rust. :nea: Have a double flair, flairing tool, makes nice line's, & everything stay's in place, after you fish it through to it's final place. :good:

got a link to this product? :thanks:

 

[mcgovern61]

chuck c » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:13 pm[/url]":1dczw3at]
I put the new lines on. No improvement. With the lines clamped the lever is hard as a rock. I've tried every method of bleeding, for the bleeders up, from the ms down, nothing works. Sometimes I can get one side fairly solid but when I unclamp the other line it all goes back to mush. I'm out of ideas. :head bang:

If you want and can wait until Saturday morning, I can get up there and work on it with you. I have done these brakes quite a bit and can usually get them going from full of air to solid brakes!

 

[Tom_Charlton]

double flaring on brake lines is essential!

 

[OldWrench]

As stated, never use anything but steel for brake lines, and a double flare. You can get tubing benders from Harbor freight or any tool supplier, don't attempt to bend steel lines without a tubing bender.

 

[chuck c]

mcgovern61 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:16 pm[/url]":3derw6je]

chuck c » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:13 pm[/url]":3derw6je]
I put the new lines on. No improvement. With the lines clamped the lever is hard as a rock. I've tried every method of bleeding, for the bleeders up, from the ms down, nothing works. Sometimes I can get one side fairly solid but when I unclamp the other line it all goes back to mush. I'm out of ideas. :head bang:

If you want and can wait until Saturday morning, I can get up there and work on it with you. I have done these brakes quite a bit and can usually get them going from full of air to solid brakes!

Having someone here that has made them work before would be most helpful. See you then.

 

[mcgovern61]

Having someone here that has made them work before would be most helpful. See you then.

:clapping: :moped:

 

[Denver]

The brake line comes in a roll at most auto part's store's. :whistling: Might be called stainless, but is BETTER than steel in strength, & won't rust. :yes: In Europe they have been required to use rust proof lines for year's. :roll: Just a note that a few year's ago i replaced the rusted out line's on my car, when i read the package, saw 90% copper was the content of the line's, 10% nickle. :shock: All the past beater car's, that had a piece or two of plain old old copper, single flair, & or rubber hose, with cheap ass clamp's, on the brake line's :smilie_happy:

 

[joedrum]

well if your going to do new hose as part as brake job ....then you need upgrade the system to eliminate the splitter deal honda put in ...and run seperate hoses to front master cylinder and used a double banjo fitting eliminating the air deal all together ...one day on hooch this is what ill do ...really was just stupid engineering connecting the brakes together from the get go ....gee must have saved absolutely nothing to do it this way as the splitter was more costly than a bit more hose .....

 

[OldWrench]

Joe, this is just a thought, I love the way my 83 brakes work. If one is going to replace all the brake lines, why not plumb them like an 83 with only one front brake working off the handlebar MC. Now I may be way off base here.

 

[slabghost]

Everyone has their preferences on everything and brakes are no exception. Depends a lot on the way the vehicle is used as to what braking system works best. For many a linked system is best. Some prefer to use only the rear brake and eliminate brakes up front entirely. I do not recommend it myself. Others prefer the earlier style of separate front and rear systems. Many love the ABS braking. To each his own. Your bike your risk.

 

[joedrum]

linked brakes to me are great on gravel roads and really almost all conditions ..but there are time when you need seperate for some situations ...somesituations it better if you dont have brakes at all ...as soon as you touch them your down LOL

i do prefer separated brakes and simplified to actually be the best they can be ....most of the time i am a back braker and try not to need more than they have ...like stay off people bumper LOL like i like my space

 

[OldWrench]

Well the 83 gives you both, linked and separate, and I know my one front will supply plenty of stopping power if just using the front. However most of the time I use both. I do like just using the front lightly in the rain.

 

[joedrum]

it dosnt give you back only...and there are times that is needed to keep from going down..as any front will toast you ...but as stated in general linked brakes fit more things better ...to me

 

[Ansimp]

I like unlinked brakes and non abs as I have the dreaded driveway and there always seems to be some dirt road that I end up riding on. It is the seperate rear brake that gives me traction control by applying some brake and using the throttle at a constant rpm. Going down the DD I don't want the front to wash out so I only use the rear brake. ABS increases my stopping distance on the DD when it is wet and/or slippery ( 5 car lengths for a panic stop with ABS and 1- 1 1/2 without).

 

[Denver]

That's my only issue with the linked system as well. :yes: No longer drive on the old gravel county roads, :nea: as all my bike's have the linked system. :roll: Was debating plugging the rear outlet, the front one to the rear brake, a jumper hose to the right brake cylinder, :headscratch: the front master on all the faired model's should have enough capacity to operate both front caliper's. :yes:

 

[chuck c]

slabghost » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:44 pm[/url]":3455qnn0]
Front calipers ARE bad design. If you don't turn them so bleeder is straight up you will never get the little air bubble out.

THIS is what I need to know. I removed the lower bolt and loosened the top, then rotated the caliper so the bleeder is pointing straight up. The left caliper is now 100% and the right is about 75%. Both feel pretty good. There might be a tiny bit left in the right side but the bike seems to be rideable. Now if I can just figure out why the darned thing backfires every time I try to start it.....