Fuel injection conversion?

[chuck c]

Has anyone here done it to a Wing? Lots of people are experimenting with Arduino as a fuel injection control on everything from lawn mowers to motorcycles. One guy stuck a Buick injector in the wall of his carb, turning it into a throttle body, and ran a small engine just fine. From what I've seen so far you can go full into it with all the sensors and lots of software down to really simple TB type systems. If I get my single carb working I might try EFI next.

 

[joedrum]

ive seen quite a few projects ... i cant say i could do it without a lot of help ... just not to good in this area ... but i sure would like to learn .. a guy named travis has got one he did .. seems pleased with it ... and talk some on it most went over my head i guess especially the money part LOL :headscratch:

 

[slabghost]

Yes several have done injection including Honda. Steve83 is in process of this mod now I think.

 

[slabghost]

I like the idea. Are you going to show us how?

 

[Steve83]

I got a 1200 engine running on fuel injection, but that was using original Honda parts from an '85 Limited Edition - which was fuel injected. I just don't have the tools or money to make it work on an 1100 or 1000. The systems are getting simpler all the time. I prefer having the injectors at the intake ports to eliminate any icing issues, but a throttle body injector should be workable on a single carb setup.

Here's my thread...so far:

https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=6903&hilit=fuel+injection

 

[ekvh]

A couple at NGW have done it. The costs are surprisingly high. I think JBz is doing one using lots of currently available parts which might keep the costs down some. I haven't seen a reasonably priced ems that the average Joe could use yet. Reading the other builds makes me think this a $1000+ proposition. Steve's way is probably the cheapest, but how many ltd's are out their to canabalize?

 

[chuck c]

The original 4 injector-type system looks a bit beyond me for now. If I try it I'd go for a single injector throttle body for simplicity and see if I can make that works first. No timing issues, no crank or cam position sensors. They can work well with just a TP, MAP and an O2 sensor. I'm glad to see others here are trying to do it so by the time I try they'll have it allllllllllll figured out for me :yes:. I'm jumping too far ahead, right now I'm just going for a slick single Solex carb, I hope to start on the manifold next week. I'll keep y'all posted on that.

 

[Dusterdude]

You could try it with a gm tbi unit and a megasquirt controller,would be an nteresting project


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ansimp]

For me it would have to be MFI to get the full benefits over a single carby install. I really don't see the point of TBI as you have to provide a high pressure fuel system for very little gain IMHO.

 

[chuck c]

I saw one in my research that worked at only 7 psi. The guy programmed the injector opening to very short pulses and varied their frequency and length to control the volume which I think helped vaporize the fuel more evenly. He claimed to get good vaporization at that pressure with his setup, but it was for running a small single cylinder engine. Point is they may not require as much pressure as we are used to depending on the program.

I'd try a TBI and if I got decent performance I'd be happy. I think a multi injector system adds a great deal of complexity for very little benefit, but if I felt confident I wouldn't mind giving it a try to see if there really is a benefit.

 

[Steve83]

The 1200 fuel injected Goldwings have 4 injectors, but they're fired in pairs - left then right. There is a crank angle sensor (for ignition timing), cam angle sensors (for injector timing), intake air temp and coolant temp sensors, and 2 manifold pressure (vacuum) sensors. No O2 or mass air flow sensors. Fast idle is controlled by an air valve that bypasses the throttle plates during warm-up. Fuel pressure is 34-38 PSI.

The engine I have mounted on the stand starts immediately, regardless of temp and time since last run. The idle is smooth, and throttle response is instant.. I really like the system, and once I studied and understood all the functions, troubleshooting should be much simpler. plus there are LEDs on the computer case for trouble codes. For being almost 30 years old, I'm impressed!

 

[dan filipi]

1200 injectors fire in pairs?
Seems a waste since only one cylinder fires at a time or......what am I missing here?

 

[Steve83]

A lot of early systems fired all injectors together. My '86 Bronco II fired all 6 once per crank revolution. Simple and effective. The little truck ran sweet! I'm pretty sure my '92 Explorer is the same.

On the 1200, injectors 1 and 3 fire just before cylinder #1 starts its intake stroke. Half a crank turn later, #3 starts its intake stroke, so there's very little time between injector firing and intake valve opening. Another half-turn, and injectors 2 and 4 fire just before #2 intake stroke, then #4 intake starts after another half turn.

I wonder if a sequential firing injection system would make much of a difference on these engines...

Oh, and I left out the throttle position sensor on my previous post. D'oh!

 

[joedrum]

hmmmm well i certainly know who to go to about fuel injection if i ever go there ....steve you really took this on and went the distance

 

[chuck c]

Wow, I wondered if it was possible to fire them before the intake valve opened. It just means the charge hangs out in the port for a few milliseconds. Heck if the injector was set slightly farther away the timing would be perfect. Only at one RPM of course .

One of those bikes came up for sale on CL last summer. I wanted to go see it just to look at it. It was not running and I didn't think I could handle the system. Now I do and if another shows up I'm on it.

From what you've said a 4 injector system might not be that much harder than a TBI. The more I learn about it the more I want to mess with fuel injection. How does the cam pos sensor work? I've heard of the pulley missing 1 or 2 teeth and it spots the gap.

 

[Steve83]

The cam position sensor has 2 pickup coils and a single rotating trigger. The coils are 180 degrees apart, so one triggers the left side injectors, the other triggers the right ones. It's nearly identical to the 1100 ignition pulser assembly, only turning at half the speed.

The crank angle sensor uses an 8-tooth trigger wheel and a single pickup coil. The computer uses signals from all the sensors for ignition timing, and for injector pulse duration. If a tooth broke off, I'm sure it would be noticed! The trigger wheel is in the center of the crank sprocket, between the timing belts. If something got in there and broke a tooth off the steel wheel, it would probably do some serious damage to the timing belts, and you'd have more serious problems to deal with!

Starting in '85, all 1200's use the crank sensor and a computer to control the ignition timing.