GL1100 to re-bore or resleeve and bearing colour codes?

[birkco]

Been running my 1981 GL1100 Interstate for a year (bike had been sitting for quite a while and had to recondition the carbs) and it was using quite a bit of oil but bike ran well.
I followed ideas on the forum and replaced the stem seals, had a slight improvement but was still using too much oil and the compression remained on the low side.
Decided to bite the bullet and took out the engine removed the heads and found some quite bad scouring in 2 pots (from water/rust damage at some stage which was polished), rings seem ok so this could be the reason for the oil usage. Continued and split the engine and discovered that the big ends and mains bearings were badly worn and one was very close to being worn through.

Can anyone offer advice and help with the questions below:-

1.Found it difficult to identify and see the colour code of these bearings any help?

2.Can/should I have the damaged cylinders re sleeved to standard? Or would it be better to have them all re-bored to next size, which would mean new pistons and rings? This bike has obviously done some serious mileage that does not correspond to the speedometer!
Thanks.

 

[slabghost]

It might be possible to bore it for the 1200 pistons. If not I have no idea what pistons to suggest. If you are lucky new main bearings will still fit right. Maybe plastigage will help you to find the correct size. You are deeper into the motor than I have ever been yet.

 

[mcgovern61]

I wouldn't spend the money needed for all of that when a used low mileage engine can usually be picked up for $150. That is the route I took with my '81 engine which was also worn out; I replaced it with a used '83 and it runs like a clock!

 

[Ansimp]

Good advice on the second hand engine buy. My mechanic who is close to retirement age is an old school technician was trained in all the skills ( transmission servicing,engine rebuilding and machining, auto electrical and paint/panel repair) mainly buys in second hand engines and transmission to instal in customers vehicles because of the parts and labour costs to recondition nowdays.

 

[birkco]

Thanks, problem is my location and availability of a good repalcement engine. If I was to get one in the States I would have to get it shipped to Zimbabwe extra time and money. I will have to look into the various avenues and weight up the costs I guess. Also could I use any year of GL1100 into my 1981 bike??

 

[slabghost]

Thanks, problem is my location and availability of a good repalcement engine. If I was to get one in the States I would have to get it shipped to Zimbabwe extra time and money. I will have to look into the various avenues and weight up the costs I guess. Also could I use any year of GL1100 into my 1981 bike??

Yes. Actually you could use any 1000,1100, or 1200 motor. Wiring will likely need changed a little. If 1200 is to be used a bit more modification will need done. So depending on availability you do have options. The best 1200 to use if available is the 84.

 

[joedrum]

hmmmm bearing are hard to find here ....there are others who know this stuff better ...its a mess trying to get parts for lower end

 

[Stevej's wing]

I am just getting done with a 81 restore and I split the case on it and wished I had not.
I have been a mechanic for 40 years, and I say mechanic, (not a technician!)
I would also recommend a used engine that has low mileage, honda's way of doing bearings is completely crazy!!
I did find bearings for it and found Hasting's the ring maker that could match the rings on the 1100 engine.
Paying 50 a piston for rings is just CRAZY, and the bearings, buying them form Honda per bearing half will cost a fortune!!!

I can rebuild a small block chevy gen1 engine with new pistons, cam, lifters, bearings, oil pump, gasket kit, for almost as much as a set of rings cost for these 1100's!!

 

[joedrum]

plus 1 to above statement completely....

 

[Steve83]

In the manual (which is in the gallery), there are several charts explaining the bearing codes. On the right front of the engine case, there are the numbers 1, 2 and 3, and each will have a I, II or III next to it. These are the main bearing bore size codes. Near each main journal on the crankshaft is a 1, 2 or 3. These are the main journal diameter size codes. Most engines will have II and 2 codes, which use brown coded bearings.

Main Bearing Selection Chart

• Steve83
• Mar 18, 2013

The letters A, B or C on the crankshaft, near the rod journals are their diameter codes, and the connecting rods are scribed with 1, 2 or 3, which is their bearing bore size code. Most are B and 2, which is a brown bearing code.

Rod Bearing Selection Chart

• Steve83
• Mar 18, 2013

It is an odd way to do it, but it works. I've found all the brown, and a few of the other bearings are still available. I got mine at Babbitt's online - not cheap, but better than any others I've found - around $12 to 14 each piece. And they're OEM, so I'll have a new engine when I'm done.

I bought a set of 1200 pistons/rods on Ebay to experiment with. They're 76 mm wide, so I thought they might be used in a 1.0 mm oversize 1100 cylinder, but the 1200 wrist pin is quite a bit larger, and the rod is longer because of the longer stroke. The rod bearings are the same. Oh well...

Hope this helps!

 

[OldWrench]

If you can find a used low mileage engine you will be much better off. Now if you do decide to rebuild I wouldn’t bore the engine, thinner liners mean more heat and that is one thing the 1100 engine does not need. Some of the heat dissipation in any engine comes from the thickness of the liners or sleeves if you will. Not only that getting oversize pistons might be a challenge you would not with to undergo.

As for the bearings, the other poster is correct about Honda bearing from what I have heard, I haven’t replaced them so I don’t know first hand. Also remember if you are going to replace the bearing and they are that worn you better figure on having the crankshaft turned, and then of course you need to match the bearings to the new crank specs.
It would probably cost less to find a good used engine and have it shipped to you than to bear the cost of rebuilding.

 

[birkco]

The post from Steve83 from the manual, puts the subject across very clearly thanks.

Where I am so far:-

Have taken the engine block and heads to the Engineering shop for an estimate to do the following.

Grind Crank big ends to suit bearings as per chart.
Standardise conrods.
Bore cylinders to first oversize or to re-sleeve to standard.

Seat valves to suits new valves and replace valve guides.

All of this can be done in Zim, will only then have to get new bearings, big ends and mains as well as possible pistons! Cost factor.

Once I have this I can them look at it against purchase of a good used engine -Cost, freight duties etc to Zim. Plus the fact that one does not really know of the true condition of the used engine!! Does any one do reconditioned Engines??

Incidentally Stevej’s wing comments unfortunately echo closely my mechanic ( who normally works on BMW bikes) views when he had the engine open and split.

A lot of little things to look after, and the O rings !!!!!!!!!

Clever blokes those Japanese designers!

Cheers

 

[Ansimp]

Birko I believe that if you got on to a good engine from any of the forum members you would be happy. My experience has been great with both parts and members that I have dealt with.
Check out what Steve has been doing on my 1100 at "Ansimp's '81 Resurrection"

 

[mcgovern61]

Birko I believe that if you got on to a good engine from any of the forum members you would be happy. My experience has been great with both parts and members that I have dealt with.
Check out what Steve has been doing on my 1100 at "Ansimp's '81 Resurrection"

I agree except that shipping an engine from the states to Zimbabwe might equal the value of the ship it is being sent on! :shock:

 

[dan filipi]

Birkco, I respect how your going about this, getting quote from the shop.
I have direct experience with a couple shops that find or make their own tools. The old timers are awesome.

One shop rebuilt 2 heads complete for me and cross matched valve guides they machined by hand to match original specs.
Both shops said they would try their damndest to come up with main and rod bearings. I'm not into this engine that far just yet that I'm working on.

I completely agree with your view on used engines being unknown condition. I'm on my 3rd "good engine" according to the prior owner.

The only way I'd ever buy another is from a long time forum member I knew I could trust.

 

[dan filipi]

Birko I believe that if you got on to a good engine from any of the forum members you would be happy. My experience has been great with both parts and members that I have dealt with.
Check out what Steve has been doing on my 1100 at "Ansimp's '81 Resurrection"

I agree except that shipping an engine from the states to Zimbabwe might equal the value of the ship it is being sent on! :shock:

I think if one got creative it could be done and be affordable.
My sister lived on Maui and would come to California, purchase a bunch of stuff cheaper than they can buy there for a property they were working on, then container it to the island. They would save close to half.

A guy from the UK bought a bike I had.
He gathered up all sorts of stuff like that from here to fill a container then sold it there.

Just saying there are options.

 

[Steve83]

Before you have it bored, make sure you are able to get the oversize pistons! That is, unless you have it sleeved and bored to standard size.

As far as machining the crank, be positive it needs it! Mother Honda says no grinding on the crank! I think there is a chart in the manual that lists the bearings by color and gives the amount of undersize.

I bought a "good ued" 1100 short block that looked nearly new. My instinct was to open it up to make sure, and I'm glad I did! The #4 rod bearing had spun from lack of oil pressure, but the crank had no damage. That's when I decided to rebuild my '83.

Good luck with yours! Can you post pics of the build? :beg:

 

[OldWrench]

Dan correct me if I’m wrong here. Many of the used low mileage engines have sat for years and have been severely neglected, meaning rust in the cylinder walls, erosion from neglected coolant and on we go. However if you have an engine with good bearings, and very little taper in the cylinder walls one can hone the cylinders and re-ring it, do the valves and valve guides and new gasket kit, and come up with a good engine.
The reason is I have an 80 engine that is the exact situation.

 

[dan filipi]

Dan correct me if I’m wrong here. Many of the used low mileage engines have sat for years and have been severely neglected, meaning rust in the cylinder walls, erosion from neglected coolant and on we go. However if you have an engine with good bearings, and very little taper in the cylinder walls one can hone the cylinders and re-ring it, do the valves and valve guides and new gasket kit, and come up with a good engine.
The reason is I have an 80 engine that is the exact situation.

Sounds right to me except that if the compression is good (I'm talkin over 160) then I'd leave the cylinders alone.

 

[slabghost]

Dan correct me if I’m wrong here. Many of the used low mileage engines have sat for years and have been severely neglected, meaning rust in the cylinder walls, erosion from neglected coolant and on we go. However if you have an engine with good bearings, and very little taper in the cylinder walls one can hone the cylinders and re-ring it, do the valves and valve guides and new gasket kit, and come up with a good engine.
The reason is I have an 80 engine that is the exact situation.

joedrum cleaned the rust from the cylinders on his latest motor. You might want to check with him before disassembly.